WINNING UGLY, LOSING UGLY WHO CARES?
Who the heck were those players wearing Dodger uniforms in the Rockies’ and D-backs’ series? Whoever they were, they certainly did not perform like a playoff caliber team. They struggled with pitching, struggled with hitting, and couldn’t play defense. My, my, my, that’s typically a recipe for baseball disaster!! Heaven forbid that team should have to play the mighty Padres in the playoffs. The Dodgers may as well go home
Who the heck were those players wearing Dodger uniforms in the Rockies’ and D-backs’ series? Whoever they were, they certainly did not perform like a playoff caliber team. They struggled with pitching, struggled with hitting, and couldn’t play defense. My, my, my, that’s typically a recipe for baseball disaster!! Heaven forbid that team should have to play the mighty Padres in the playoffs. The Dodgers may as well go home now if that were to happen, as they would stand little, to no chance, for advancing past the vaunted Padres. Clearly the Padres have the better team! Don’t they? If I understood some of the comments last week, even though the Dodgers had, at the time, won 7 of the last 10 games they had played, even though they have the best record in baseball and have the greatest positive run differential of any team(apparently this statistic doesn’t mean much), they’re really not that good, or are classic under achievers. To some, the only reason they have any success is because they are playing inferior teams, they are lucky, and the opposition has routinely “given” the Dodgers their victories.
The Dodgers are winning ugly and they are losing ugly and, to that I say, so what? In baseball there are no points given for style. The ultimate, and only, arbiter is the final score. If, when the final out of the game is recorded, the Dodgers have more runs than the opposition, they win. Frankly, I could care less if the Dodgers didn’t look good in victory, they were “lucky” or, if the other team “gave” them the victory. To me that is absolutely meaningless. They won. Successful teams have a unique capacity to win ugly. Moreover, a teams’ performance today is not a guarantee that is how they are going to perform in the future.
In addition, if the Dodgers win the last game of the baseball playoffs, they win the World Series. End of story. Doesn’t matter to me if they look like the Keystone Cops getting there. It only matters that they get there, and that they win that last game. Do I believe they can do it this year? Yes, I do. Will the ball have to bounce their way at times? No doubt. With that said, do I have concerns about this team? Yes, I do. But then again, I don’t know that I have ever watched a single year of Dodger baseball when I didn’t have a concern or two about the team. This year is no different. Frankly, it would be nice if Muncy, Bellinger, Kike’ and Joc would remember how to hit consistently. I would also love to see the “minor league player of the year” version of Gavin Lux, instead of the imposter who is pretending to be him currently. However, despite their hitting woes, I’m here to tell you, should any of these players get a dramatic winning hit in the Series, all will be forgiven. The slumps will be but a distant memory. Moreover, I don’t care if each of their wins in the playoffs was an “ugly” win, as long as they win.
As to the pitching, I don’t know why, but every time Jansen comes into a game, he makes me nervous. Even though he makes me nervous, his statistics (prior to the game with the Astros) tell me he is doing well. I know, I know, for some of you he just doesn’t pass the eye test. Granted that may be true. But the Dodgers have Josh Bard and Steve Cilladi in the bullpen. Mark Prior and Connor McGuiness on the bench. Surely, one of these professionals can see if something is seriously amiss. The Astro game aside, if he saves 10 out of 10 games in the playoffs, I will love me some Kenley!!
I also fret over our starting pitching. Kershaw has recaptured some of his mojo but, as we all remind each other, over and over again, his legacy in the playoffs is spells certain doom and failure. Will he ever overcome that legacy? It’s possible. What about Buehler? Doggone it, he is supposed to be our ace and can’t seem to throw 5 innings. How long are we going to mess around with his blister? Then there is Julio Urias. At times he seems like the real deal, other times not so much. May and Gonsolin can look absolutely unhittable at times. But the question on many minds is, can the Dodgers rely on them, when they are so young?
The bullpen has looked good, that is, until they don’t. But isn’t that what bullpens do? One day it’s chicken the next day it’s feathers. Just ask Adam Ottavino, who has been one of the more reliable relievers for the Yankees, yet the other night he gave up 6 runs without recording an out. Move over Kenley, you have company. Ottavino has been philosophical about his slumps in the past, such as the one he had during the playoffs last year, “The good news is,” he said, “I can’t be this bad forever.” Sunday night the bullpen looked really good. Graterol was absolutely lights out, and Sborz, Gonzales, McGee, Wood, Floro, Ferguson and Jansen (it was a chicken day for him) were each very good.
It’s been 32 years since the last World Series championship for the Dodgers. That’s a long time ago. We’re all anxious for another downtown parade. While I’m not the man now that I was then and, admittedly, I sometimes struggle with my memory, I do, however, seem to recall that the Dodgers were not the best team in baseball in 1988. That distinction went to the A’s or the Mets. Not only did those teams have the best records, they had the best players on offense, defense and, arguably they had the best pitching, Outside of Kirk Gibson, the Dodgers did not have much going offensively that year. No player hit over .300, no player had more than 25 home runs, no player had more than 82 RBI. Only 3 regulars hit over .275. Only Gibson had an OPS over .800. An offensive juggernaut that team was not. They relied on their “Stuntmen” to come off the bench and provide key hits. Pitching was another story. They had the ability to pitch well, and did at the right time. Hershiser had an amazing year. Tim Leary and Tim Belcher were solid. The rest of the starters were just so-so. John Tudor was the big mid-season acquisition (he was the Mike Clevinger of the time), however, he hurt his arm, and was a non-factor in the playoffs. The bullpen, anchored by Jay Howell, Alejandro Pena, Jesse Orosco and the unheralded and under-appreciated (at least for that year) Brian Holton, was fairly strong and consistent. The Dodgers often won ugly that year, but at the end, they were the last team standing!
I initially wrote this article on Saturday afternoon, just before the game with the Astros was about to begin. I had planned to write a much longer article on why teams need to be able to win ugly and that slumps regularly happen in baseball. Unfortunately, the demands of my work schedule got away from me and I had to devote some much needed attention to making a living. By the time I finished the initial draft of the article, the game had started, and I followed the first couple of innings on Gameday. Julio Urias’ performance epitomized the up and down angst I can sometimes experience with this team. He gave up a run in the first and, in my opinion, threw a few too many pitches. This caused me to feel some frustration. An inning later, when I e-mailed the article to Jeff, the Dodgers hit a couple of homeruns in the bottom of the second, to turn the tide.
Because of the scheduling of the articles, I had the opportunity to slightly up date this article and, as we all now know, Urias pitched really well for the remainder of the game. It was a game, the Dodgers should have won, but they lost in a very ugly fashion. It was a total feather day for Jansen.
I revised this article slightly on Monday morning. Tonight, the Dodgers start their series with the Padres. Obviously, I’m hoping they win, and I give a rat’s rear end if they win ugly!!!!
I’ll leave you with a song by the Rolling Stones called “Winning Ugly” Not their best song by any means, but it is on point. Perhaps the Stones were trying to drive home my point by “singing ugly.”
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Discussion (143)
Disagree, not disagreeable
One encouraging thing from last night is that I thought Kersh had his best stuff Ive seen from him in a while. His slider was nasty and his fastball was 93 and a couple of 94’s. He deserved better. But that gives me some hope for the playoffs. Now Buehler needs to step up. But offensively we are scary bad right now especially from the left side and Im not too confident any of those guys are going to figure it out!
The “ride” got a little off route yesterday, but let us hope it is back on track tonight. I think it will.
Baseball and the Dodgers particularly are for the folks on this blog, a diversion from everyday life. And for some, they are a passion. They revel in the wins and agonize over every loss. Very few are on the fence about the team. They either believe, or do not. And sometimes they blame the easiest target for the teams woes. The manager. I am guilty of this a lot, because even though the play on the field is squarely on the players, I believe, and always have, that his in game decisions affect the game always. As I stated earlier he has a 50-50 chance of making the right decision. Most of us would take those odds. I can go back over Dodger history and remember many times I wondered what was he thinking? It is always easier to second guess. In 51 in the playoffs against the Giants, with Newk obviously running out of gas, Dressen went to Ralph Branca to face Bobby Thompson, even though Thompson had homered off of Branca in his game 1 start. Bad Juju. And a head scratcher since he had other relievers available including Clyde King who had 7 saves. Labine was used as the game 2 starter. Alston made some head turners too. And to my generation, Tommy electing to pitch to Jack Clark bordered on lunacy. So, we rant and rave, jump up and down and bemoan our misfortune at being fans of a franchise that has frustrated us, teased us, and let us down for the last 30 plus years. All will be forgiven on the glorious day they finally win the last game of the year. Will 2020 be that year? Only time will tell. All we can do is hold on tight and enjoy the ride……we hope.
Some of us Ole Timers remember the 1951 quote “The Giants is dead” by Dodger manager Charlie Dressen. At the time in early August, the Giants trailed the Dodgers by 12 1/2 games. Bobby Thompson ended the Dodgers season with “the shot heard round the world”. This year won’t be decided until all the games are played. As Dodger fan of 70 years I have heard “wait til next year” enough. There is still time to win it all this year!
I’m not ready to give up on the team but I do understand the concerns of those who are.
Solid post William. You are always clear and concise, and I respect how you present your argument. My only question is regarding the idea we can’t let San Diego outbid us. I believe it’s a closed bid. We were in on it with an offer AF thought was competitive. We were after all the best team in the league at the time. San Diego was then and is now chasing us. They needed more than we did. A lot more. And, perhaps they got it. But I don’t think it matters who we play in the playoffs, will be favored, as we should be.
I keep waiting for Bellinger and Muncy to snap out of their slumps, but lately a couple of analysts, Smolz and ARod I believe, confirmed my doubts. Neither of these guys are showing me signs they are ready at any moment to go deep, and those analysts doubt they get it going this late. These players are clearly running out of time.
I think we are still the best team in the league but that means very little in the playoffs, especially this year.
Next pitch. Until the last out is recorded, always, next pitch.
Justin Turner activated off of the IL, and Sborz sent to the alternate site. At least they did it early in the day so we did not have to wait for the news. Don’t look now, but the White Sox are only 2 games behind for the best overall record. They are the second hottest team in the majors right now with a 5 game win streak and 9 of 10. Padres on 8 game streak also 9 of 10.
It is depressing, and of course there are more important things i the world to be worried about, but here we focus on the Dodgers. And as a long-time Dodgers fan, as all of you are, it is upsetting to contemplate that they may very well have allowed San Diego to become the best team in the division, if not the league, for not just this year, but going forward.
Yes, of course we cannot control what other franchises do, and SD has benefited from some good draft choices. But they then went out and spent all sorts of money, and this year added many players at the trade deadline, including a fine pitcher, a potential high-end reliever, and some additional bats. We added…nothing. We thought we did not have to, because we had the best record; but trading periods are to improve your club, and when other teams do, in this case, in a big way, and you do not, they gain relative to you. It’s all relative, you are not a franchise in a vacuum. I don’t think that the Dodgers strategize that way, though.
And in this case, it is worse, because if SD is better than we are, they will win our division in upcoming years, and we will be fighting for wild cards; and it is hard to win a title that way, and we do not show that kind of capacity to win three series starting on the road. We need to be the best team, win the division, have the best record, and then maybe Roberts can get us to the title. He’s certainly not going to manage his way past better clubs, not consistently.
And this could have been avoided, just by getting Clevinger. Because he is a good pitcher, and would have helped? Yes, and just as importantly, because then the Padres would not have him. You need to protect your divisional status, because otherwise it is wild card time at best. The Padres want very badly to win, and went big. The Dodgers never do. And yes, we did indeed land Betts, and that was great, and deserves praise. But that was aberrational for us, and we had opened up all that salary cap room. Now we are back to depending on our minor league system, and whatever we can pick up from the bargain bin. And against a franchise which may not even have stopped going big, we are in trouble. We were lucky because in the last five years or so, no team in our division was going anywhere, except for that one year when the Rockies were good, and we were fortunate to tie them at the end, and went on from there. In the face of competition which will spend more money, go after anyone they think will help them, our way of doing things, while effective in general, could leave us without a championship for another decade.
Now, I know that i write about this theme a great deal.. And I wouldn’t, if i didn’t think it was the meta-issue which has the most impact on why we do not win titles. It is the Guggenheim way, the ‘Stan Kasten way. Friedman may or may not have a lot to do with it, he was hired to implement it within constraints. Who was it who decided not to outbid SD for Clevinger, not to take a shot with Rosenthal at least? If you are the Dodgers, you do not let San Diego outbid you, unless they are giving up proven star players which you cannot match, which was not the case. We simply cannot let them be better than we are, not consistently, at least. And maybe they won’t be, but I would absolutely favor them to win more games than we do next year, in a full season.
Yes, I realize that we have a better record, and if we win the next two, or even one of them, we could still win the division. But they seem better, and would probably beat us in a seven-game series. Last night’s game was typical of the kind of games we lose in playoffs; we cannot hit good pitching, we get a small early lead; and then cannot do anything. Kershaw pitches well, but not quite well enough; we go to the bullpen, which fails us, and we play very poorly in the field, with a hard-trying player who somehow has to play multiple positions but is not adept at any of them, making mental and physical mistakes, And the opponent piles on runs. The only thing missing was the frenzied crowd cheering wildly against us.
Getting away from what I see as the overarching issue, that of ownership philosophy, risk aversiveness, and a certain degree of cheapness and rigidity, and just focusing on this one season, we obviously need Turner back and quickly getting into the form he was in before he tried to steal second base. We need Bellinger to somehow pick it up, but this seems unlikely. We need May to be able to pitch effectively. We need the bullpen, which Roberts has typically overtaxed, to return to the great form of early in the short season.
And of course we need to beat the teams we play in the playoffs, notably the Padres, since there are always two teams on the field, the Dodgers are not playing against themselves in some abstract realm. When the Cubs beat us pretty handily in the league championship series, most of us accepted that as, they were just better. Is that going to be the case with the Padres now? How many times in the last two decades have the Dodgers beaten a team in a playoff series which was actually stronger than we were? I do remember one fluke series against St Louis where we swept them; an outfielder dropped the last out which was hit right to him, things like that. That was so memorable, because we usually never beat a better team in the playoffs, we are not managed well enough for that. It is hard to win a title in baseball, but some team does every year; some, like the Giants, Cardinals, Red Sox, Yankees, have won multiple titles in the last twenty years. Somehow they have managed to get there, and I think that ownership and front office philosophy, has had a lot to do with that, unless we want to see it all as just a game of chance, where the roulette ball just doesn’t fall in our slot.
They will be in the playoffs. The only question is will they be the 1 or the 4 seed. I do think that they are not the best team in the league at this point. They have the best record, but for how long? Even if they lose tonight, they will still be in first by 1/2 game. And the Padres and Giants will only make up the game they missed if it impacts the standings, +Confidence is a huge part of this game, and right now, the fans confidence is pretty low. Muncy does not look confident at the plate, or in the field. When Bellinger comes to the plate you can see the frustration on his face when he misses a pitch he used to crush. I also feel like 2D2, I do not care if they win ugly or the game is a gem. And what they did or did not do at the deadline is old news now. And it cannot be undone. As for Roberts, there are many pluses to his managing. Most of them have to do with how he deals with his players. But as a in game strategist, he leaves a lot to be desired. He also is a total company guy. He spouts the company line in every post game interview. He is a spin doctor. The performance in the game is on the players, that every poster on this blog knows. Putting the best player for the circumstance in the game is on the manager. He has a 50-50 chance of being right. Last night, Doc was on the wrong side of the equation. And Badger is right too. 12 games left. If they win all of them, it does not matter what SD does. If they lose half, that is on them. They control their own destiny.
In one year. We add Mookie Betts to a team that won 106 games. And in one year the Padres who lost 92 games last year are the better team right now! What the ………..! Mark you can quote all the stats you want but this team does not pass the smell test. We have a good record because we have played a lot of crappy teams with crappy pitching. And yet our entire left handed hitting lineup except for Seager has Mendozed the season. The mantra is that they will “get it together” by the post season. Well there we will face good pitching and we all saw what that will look like last night. For those of you who don’t think defense is important last night should cure you. We wasted a brilliant performance by Kersh. Muncy’s defense is atrocious wherever he plays. Lux is right there. Seager is below average. Joc is a turtle in left and Betts hasn’t been a gold glover this year. Our relief pitching which has been brilliant most of the year is now crashing back to earth just in time for the playoffs. Other than Kersh we don’t have a starting pitcher who can go more than five innings. NO chance of a WS championship once again this year. The Dodgers have created a regular season juggernaut by beating up on bad teams. Unfortunately that’s not who we play in the post season!
All I can say is,.”Ouch!” The question is, how will they respond? Will they use this as motivation to kick the Padres’ butts the next time or will they collapse in self-doubt? How much fight do they have in them? Are they afraid of losing, and therefore will play too cautiously, or will they take a stand and fight? The Padres have nothing to lose. No one expected them to win the division this year. The Dodgers have something to lose, because everyone expects them to win. They need to claim their territory. They need to make a statement that this division belongs to them.
At the end of last year, and Spring Training of this year, along with others I thought Lux would likely be ROY. To be honest I don’t recall ever hearing of Cronenworth. He’s 26, so, technically he’s in his prime. And who hits better his first year in the Majors than he did in 5 seasons in the minors? Well, he does. Also at the beginning of the year I thought Rios showed signs he was a legit Major League slugger. Turns out he has holes in his swing an adult badger could walk through. We all knew Tatis was going to be good, but better than Seager? Not just better, considerably better. And who knew the MVP and his 35 home run sidekick would be mostly absent from class? I won’t mention this defense again here.
The team, with all its warts, amazingly still has the best record in baseball. Imagine how good they will be when they all snap out of it.
The last 10 we played don’t matter. It’s the last 10 we play that do.
We have 12 left, 6 more on the road, the last 6 at home. It doesn’t matter what the Padres do. The only thing that matters is what we do.
It’s pucker time.
I know I will ever understand Doc and the decisions he makes. I should just give up and say it is what it is. Two of your hottest hitters, Pollock and Smith sit. Peterson and Muncy play. Both not hitting their weight.
2d2, I’m assuming you wrote this article before we witnessed tonight’s game against SD. Yes?
Before the season started, there was no doubt in my mind that the Dodgers were ready to win the WS this year. I’ve never felt like that before. When the team announced who the starters would be, the first of some doubts crept in. Price chickened out. Wood was back and I was never a believer in him after his final season with the Dodgers. I couldn’t believe that AF signed him again! It was almost like signing Kazmir as it left me with the feeling of why? Then we had 3 non battle hardened starters in Urias, May, & Gonsolin. Stripling, I’ve never been big on. So, these were my only questions about whether they would go all the way.
Once I got a look at the games, I felt that indeed we still had a chance to go all the way. In fact, I still think we have a ‘chance’ to go all the way. After all, look at where we are at with the amount of games left to play. But the picture has changed significantly after the trading deadline. SD made huge strides in bulking up the team, especially the pitching. I liked them before but I would never have thought they would challenge our Dodgers like they are doing presently.
We are not currently looking very good. Our hitters are not delivering as we assumed they would. Some are, of course, but the 3 Power Posers are all in a major slump with no sign of emergence. This was something I never imagined happening especially at the same time! Plus, the injury to JT has hurt us more than meets the eye. Our rotation seems to be fraying at the seams, and our mercurial manager can’t seem to keep his hands in his pockets and not meddle so much with lineups and starters. Our BP is a bright spot, though. We had a great BP game the other night, perhaps we’ll see more of them.
So, currently, I’m not feeling so optimistic about our chances at present. Sure, we’ll get to the playoffs, but the weakness I see may not be reparable. As some poster here keeps telling us for the last 7 years that this is the year, he has been wrong every year and looks foolish, at this point. But, fans are foolish in their hope.
For me, all bets are off. I will continue to watch as a fan, but I must say I don’t feel the same way as I used to about the Dodgers. If they are tossed from the playoffs, you will be hearing from me loudly, pointing specific fingers(finger) at those who I hold responsible. Woe be to them! 🙂
I think we can all agree that tonight’s loss was ugly!! 6 good innings and one that was very ugly. Tomorrow is a new day.