WINNING UGLY, LOSING UGLY WHO CARES?
Who the heck were those players wearing Dodger uniforms in the Rockies’ and D-backs’ series? Whoever they were, they certainly did not perform like a playoff caliber team. They struggled with pitching, struggled with hitting, and couldn’t play defense. My, my, my, that’s typically a recipe for baseball disaster!! Heaven forbid that team should have to play the mighty Padres in the playoffs. The Dodgers may as well go home
Who the heck were those players wearing Dodger uniforms in the Rockies’ and D-backs’ series? Whoever they were, they certainly did not perform like a playoff caliber team. They struggled with pitching, struggled with hitting, and couldn’t play defense. My, my, my, that’s typically a recipe for baseball disaster!! Heaven forbid that team should have to play the mighty Padres in the playoffs. The Dodgers may as well go home now if that were to happen, as they would stand little, to no chance, for advancing past the vaunted Padres. Clearly the Padres have the better team! Don’t they? If I understood some of the comments last week, even though the Dodgers had, at the time, won 7 of the last 10 games they had played, even though they have the best record in baseball and have the greatest positive run differential of any team(apparently this statistic doesn’t mean much), they’re really not that good, or are classic under achievers. To some, the only reason they have any success is because they are playing inferior teams, they are lucky, and the opposition has routinely “given” the Dodgers their victories.
The Dodgers are winning ugly and they are losing ugly and, to that I say, so what? In baseball there are no points given for style. The ultimate, and only, arbiter is the final score. If, when the final out of the game is recorded, the Dodgers have more runs than the opposition, they win. Frankly, I could care less if the Dodgers didn’t look good in victory, they were “lucky” or, if the other team “gave” them the victory. To me that is absolutely meaningless. They won. Successful teams have a unique capacity to win ugly. Moreover, a teams’ performance today is not a guarantee that is how they are going to perform in the future.
In addition, if the Dodgers win the last game of the baseball playoffs, they win the World Series. End of story. Doesn’t matter to me if they look like the Keystone Cops getting there. It only matters that they get there, and that they win that last game. Do I believe they can do it this year? Yes, I do. Will the ball have to bounce their way at times? No doubt. With that said, do I have concerns about this team? Yes, I do. But then again, I don’t know that I have ever watched a single year of Dodger baseball when I didn’t have a concern or two about the team. This year is no different. Frankly, it would be nice if Muncy, Bellinger, Kike’ and Joc would remember how to hit consistently. I would also love to see the “minor league player of the year” version of Gavin Lux, instead of the imposter who is pretending to be him currently. However, despite their hitting woes, I’m here to tell you, should any of these players get a dramatic winning hit in the Series, all will be forgiven. The slumps will be but a distant memory. Moreover, I don’t care if each of their wins in the playoffs was an “ugly” win, as long as they win.
As to the pitching, I don’t know why, but every time Jansen comes into a game, he makes me nervous. Even though he makes me nervous, his statistics (prior to the game with the Astros) tell me he is doing well. I know, I know, for some of you he just doesn’t pass the eye test. Granted that may be true. But the Dodgers have Josh Bard and Steve Cilladi in the bullpen. Mark Prior and Connor McGuiness on the bench. Surely, one of these professionals can see if something is seriously amiss. The Astro game aside, if he saves 10 out of 10 games in the playoffs, I will love me some Kenley!!
I also fret over our starting pitching. Kershaw has recaptured some of his mojo but, as we all remind each other, over and over again, his legacy in the playoffs is spells certain doom and failure. Will he ever overcome that legacy? It’s possible. What about Buehler? Doggone it, he is supposed to be our ace and can’t seem to throw 5 innings. How long are we going to mess around with his blister? Then there is Julio Urias. At times he seems like the real deal, other times not so much. May and Gonsolin can look absolutely unhittable at times. But the question on many minds is, can the Dodgers rely on them, when they are so young?
The bullpen has looked good, that is, until they don’t. But isn’t that what bullpens do? One day it’s chicken the next day it’s feathers. Just ask Adam Ottavino, who has been one of the more reliable relievers for the Yankees, yet the other night he gave up 6 runs without recording an out. Move over Kenley, you have company. Ottavino has been philosophical about his slumps in the past, such as the one he had during the playoffs last year, “The good news is,” he said, “I can’t be this bad forever.” Sunday night the bullpen looked really good. Graterol was absolutely lights out, and Sborz, Gonzales, McGee, Wood, Floro, Ferguson and Jansen (it was a chicken day for him) were each very good.
It’s been 32 years since the last World Series championship for the Dodgers. That’s a long time ago. We’re all anxious for another downtown parade. While I’m not the man now that I was then and, admittedly, I sometimes struggle with my memory, I do, however, seem to recall that the Dodgers were not the best team in baseball in 1988. That distinction went to the A’s or the Mets. Not only did those teams have the best records, they had the best players on offense, defense and, arguably they had the best pitching, Outside of Kirk Gibson, the Dodgers did not have much going offensively that year. No player hit over .300, no player had more than 25 home runs, no player had more than 82 RBI. Only 3 regulars hit over .275. Only Gibson had an OPS over .800. An offensive juggernaut that team was not. They relied on their “Stuntmen” to come off the bench and provide key hits. Pitching was another story. They had the ability to pitch well, and did at the right time. Hershiser had an amazing year. Tim Leary and Tim Belcher were solid. The rest of the starters were just so-so. John Tudor was the big mid-season acquisition (he was the Mike Clevinger of the time), however, he hurt his arm, and was a non-factor in the playoffs. The bullpen, anchored by Jay Howell, Alejandro Pena, Jesse Orosco and the unheralded and under-appreciated (at least for that year) Brian Holton, was fairly strong and consistent. The Dodgers often won ugly that year, but at the end, they were the last team standing!
I initially wrote this article on Saturday afternoon, just before the game with the Astros was about to begin. I had planned to write a much longer article on why teams need to be able to win ugly and that slumps regularly happen in baseball. Unfortunately, the demands of my work schedule got away from me and I had to devote some much needed attention to making a living. By the time I finished the initial draft of the article, the game had started, and I followed the first couple of innings on Gameday. Julio Urias’ performance epitomized the up and down angst I can sometimes experience with this team. He gave up a run in the first and, in my opinion, threw a few too many pitches. This caused me to feel some frustration. An inning later, when I e-mailed the article to Jeff, the Dodgers hit a couple of homeruns in the bottom of the second, to turn the tide.
Because of the scheduling of the articles, I had the opportunity to slightly up date this article and, as we all now know, Urias pitched really well for the remainder of the game. It was a game, the Dodgers should have won, but they lost in a very ugly fashion. It was a total feather day for Jansen.
I revised this article slightly on Monday morning. Tonight, the Dodgers start their series with the Padres. Obviously, I’m hoping they win, and I give a rat’s rear end if they win ugly!!!!
I’ll leave you with a song by the Rolling Stones called “Winning Ugly” Not their best song by any means, but it is on point. Perhaps the Stones were trying to drive home my point by “singing ugly.”
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Discussion (143)
Disagree, not disagreeable
Let Gonsolin pitch, Doc!
Ok then, if Joc manages to get a hit, I’m stupid. Go Joc Go.
Hope that makes you happy Badger.
And a base running mistake.
Pros don’t know how to slide all that well.
To the pitts with ye!
These pads know how to play baseball.
Joc. You swing and miss 3 straight change ups?
Where I come from we were told NEVER throw the same pitch 3 times in a row. It’s probably still true, unless of course you’re throwing them to Joc.
And I hope Belli, Joc and Rios all prove me stupid, a hit from each of them would do it.
Badger, can they do that, have a guy hit twice ? How about Seager going twice, maybe once for Joc. And maybe Smith taking Rios AB and Gondolin having an AB in Belli’s spot. I mean check with Eric first, but if ok, I like it.
Sorry bear my bad. 74 was alston’s team. Lasorda won ws in 81 too.
.
I think Doc listened to Eric today:
Mookie
Seager
JT (DH)
Smith
Belly (1b)
CT3 (2b)
Pollock (CF)
Joc (LF)
Rios (3b)
Gonsolin
The first round will be played at Dodger Stadium, so they will have a home field sort of. They hope to let some fans into the game for the world series. There are no off days between games in the first 3 rounds of the playoffs. That is huge.
Yea because it’s all Doc’s fault that the entire Dodger lefty lineup outside of Seager is at the Mendoza line!
Don’t think Roberts will get 20 yrs. Just trying to make point that Roberts is not a good game mgr. He like 3 run hrs Instead of manufacturing run.
Say if a guy bats 500 times hits 30 hrs. 470 times he didn’t.
I will be sitting next to you on the bandwagon.lol
40 years ago today, Fernando made his MLB debut.
Wow.
Look, that wise old sage Watford summed it up:
we cannot win a WS Without Bellinger, Muncy, Joc, and Kenley contributing significantly.”
I am at peace with that…
But if they don’t win the WS, I will be driving the “Fire Doc Bandwagon.”
Who took the Dodgers to 2
WS champhionships with no 0ne over .300 and 5 WS . How many Jack clark monents has Roberts had?????
I completely agree, philjones, that it’s not OK to be the 4th seed. That probably means the starters aren’t going more than 5 innings, the bullpen has become inconsistent from overuse, and Bellinger and Muncy haven’t found a way to become successful major league hitters. It would be a damn shame. To have all that talent and depth and not to win the division would be so disappointing. The Padres aren’t more talented or have a better team than the Dodgers. At this time, the some Padres players are performing to expectations and many players are exceeding their past stats. Who on the Dodgers is doing that? It’s the other way around for the Dodgers. If it wasn’t for Mookie in the lineup it there would be even more ugliness.
Were the trades for Clevenger and Rosenthal by the Dodgers even attempted? I haven’t read anywhere that we had made offers. Was it assumed that we made an attempt to acquire these players. But, did we? I initially didn’t think we needed to trade for any additional pitching or hitting. But, closer to the deadline my feeling was “it’s been 30+ years since we won a WS. Just go for it and don’t worry about the next year or two.” Realistically, how many of our top 30 prospects are going to play for the Dodgers? I would guess, maybe, 6-8 over the next several seasons. So, we should trade some now to help win a WS (like Chicago did). It’s not like we are going to stop developing players, drafting players, and signing free agents. It’s nice to have all these great prospects, but where are they all going to play for Dodgers? I even thought why not trade for Whit Merrifield to finally plug the never ending hole at second base. Include Lux and other prospects for 3-5 years of All Star caliber play at 2B. Get Clevenger. Get Rosenthal. And, get more pitching. Some might say, but what are we going to do with all these players next year? I say what about this year. Next year will take care of itself. Heck trade away any surplus for prospects!
I just have another bad feeling about this year’s postseason just like I had last year. And, I so want to be wrong.
At what point does a bad slump become a bad season? We’re at just about 50 games here and Cody and Max have been bad pretty much the entire time. Can we expect them to turn it on whenever they want to or suddenly find the key to hitting successfully this year? Maybe that just isn’t going to happen in 2020.
Is it possible that the isolation these guys are going through in their off-field hours is affecting some players a lot more than others, just from a psychological point of view. We have Bellinger, Muncy and Joc all hitting well below their normal production. But we aren’t the only ones. Others having a pretty miserable 2020 include Yelich, Rizzo, Altuve, JD Martinez, Javy Baez and others who are normally considered very good hitters. Maybe Covid-related stuff is even more pervasive than we thought.
Could one of you hitting/coaching experts (Badger, Phil, whomever wants to opine on this) explain to me why, if Cody’s batting approach is so incredibly screwed up, he’s only striking out about 17% of his plate appearances. Mike Trout is at about 23%. Does this indicate he’s just barely missing the barrel most of the time? Has anyone thought about maybe giving him an eye test? Maybe he’s not seeing the ball correctly. Maybe RVS should step aside temporarily and we should hire an optometrist.
Afternoon guys – obviously a disappointing run of form.
Now, I have been a critic of Doc’s in game management, especially his handling of the Bullpen.
However, I think he finds himself in a very difficult spot right now.
He knows, like me, and most realistic fans, that we cannot win a WS Without Belinger, Muncy, Joc and Kenley contributing significantly.
At this point of the season, what choice does he have other than to give those guys as many opportunities as possible to try and find some form.
The way the team is built, there is no plan B, so we need the Sluggers to Slug, and Kenley to step up. We won’t win without those guys performing.
In a regular season he would have more options and time available to him, but he needs these guys to hit now.
That is why he is throwing them out there. He is a good man manager. He is showing that he has faith in them. He is hoping they will come round, and giving them every chance to do so.
Last night was disappointing but not surprising,Pederson,Muncy,Rios,Bellinger and Lux, all not hitting and all in this game.Let’s hope May pitches his best game of the season tonight. Let’s see what happens.
It will be interesting to see what Bellinger, Munch, Pederson, Rios and Lux do tonight. Hopefully produce.
Bring back tommy, he had great instincts for the game. Today he would be better than Roberts.
I can stand winning ugly.
I cannot stand Losing Uglier!
Max Muncy has had plenty of bat flips and I have no problem with what Grisham did. He was talking to his dugout – it’s the Dodgers who got chirpy. If they don’t like it – get riled up. The Padres did and treated the Dodgers like a bunch of little B________s. They are having fun. I have no problem with that. I have a problem with the way the Dodgers played last night – JT & Mookie need to have a “closed-door” meeting with the players only and lay it all out! Play ball and that’s it!
I have no problem with what Doc did last night… and unless you think Clayton has no history of problems in the 7th inning, then you should understand too. The players did not execute, but Baez had been pretty good (up until last night) with RISP. He would have gotten out of the jam last night if not for Muncy and Taylor.
The leash is getting shorter, but I would roll out this lineup against the RHP tonight:
1. Betts RF
2. Seager SS
3. Turner DH
4. Bellinger CF
5. Smith C
6. Muncy 1B
7. Pederson LF
8. Rios 3B
9. Lux 2B
There are going to have to be some hard choice made… soon!
I would like Gonsolin to plant one in Grishom’s butt the first time comes up. Show the Pads we’re serious.
Then I would like Muncy or Joc to crush one and take 5 min rounding the bases.
Most importantly, I would like a win. And I’d like Gonsolin to show that he deserves a game 3 start.
That’s really all I would like for today ( I wouldn’t mind a Clipper win so we can have LA/LA, but if Denver wins I think the Lakers have the easy path to a title)
Last night put peterson batting 3rd ave 150 puts Muncy 4th under 200. Sits The two hot hitters Smth and Pollack .Brings baez in whose’s never been good. Keeps jansen in for 5 straight hits . I know about the 3 hitter rule. No one warming up. Puts people on defense where they don’t belong. I know jt is out. But gentleman could you image if we didn’t have talent. Doc is the the problem. Can’t handle game situations. We don’t bunt we don’t hit and runs, we don’t hit the other way with the shift one. He will never take us to the WS. Utley get ready, PLEASE!
Well, it’s game on with the Padres and I love it. For the first time in a long time the Dodgers are not running away with the Division and they are going to have to play their way in, down the stretch. Hopefully no more roster and line up experiments. No more “try-out camp”. It’s GO TIME. Put your best guys in the best spots every day and let’s see what we got. No rest days the next 12 games. Cal Ripken played 2632 games in a row. Our guys can play 12.
I hate the Padres. I hate the way they play. So was Trent Grisham’s celebration just the refreshing new way to play the game and have fun? Was he just happy and excited? Or did he cross the line by showing up his opponent, especially a HOF’er? The line between expressing your personality and having fun versus rubbing your opponents nose in it has never been more blurred.
I have my thoughts but I’m not going there. That’s exactly what the Padres want to do to the Dodgers. Provoke. Poke the Bear.
* Doc looked really, really pissed at Grisham. Will see if there’s retaliation. I would love to see that but I hope we don’t go there now. There will be a time for that down the road. Now it just adds fuel to the Padres.
Some thoughts on last night:
* Mark is absolutely right when he states that it’s up to the players to perform. That’s where we are right now. The players need to step it up. It’s up to the Manager to put guys in the best spots for them to succeed. It could be debated whether Doc did that last night, with the line up and putting Baez in, but I’m not going there. I will say that the 6 – 9 batters went 0 for 12. First time ever in the 3 hole, Joc 0 for 4. The batting averages 3 – 9 were 178, .198, .279, .215, .188, .162 and .257. This from the best team in baseball.
* I’m all ready hearing the “it’s okay if we come in 4th” concessions. Not from me. Let’s compete!
* Orel and Joe think Belli has moved off the plate a little. Now about 5 more inches and we have something.
* The Padre’s Nola does have the coolest chest protector I’ve seen. The color scheme and pattern looks like a target for the pitcher. Depending on the pitch shape it could be the end or the start target for the pitch. I like it.
Doc, my 2 cents, play today’s best 8 guys. Not last year’s best or next year’s best, tonight’s best. No crazy experiments or shenanigans, just put the 8 top producers out. Is that too much to ask, or am I missing something ? We all know who needs a rest, and it’s not the guys who have been productive.