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Was Andrew Toles Treated Unfairly?

Andrew Toles was optioned to the minor leagues today, while Joc Pederson made the big club. For the record, I am an Andrew Toles fan I predicted he would be a good player long before he was called up in the first place, but now some fans think he was mistreated when they sent him back to the minors. Was he? You decide: Andrew Toles his .283 this spring,

By Mark Timmons2 min readJump to 90 comments

Andrew Toles was optioned to the minor leagues today, while Joc Pederson made the big club.  For the record, I am an Andrew Toles fan – I predicted he would be a good player long before he was called up in the first place, but now some fans think he was mistreated when they sent him back to the minors.  Was he?  You decide:

Andrew Toles his .283 this spring, but his OB% was only .286 because he has just 1 BB in 53 spring at-bats.  That is troubling and unsustainable.  He also needs to work on his outfield routes.  I will say this:  Andrew Toles has a higher upside than Joc Pederson… way higher, but he needs to improve on pitch recognition and defense.  The only way to do that is to play everyday. He can only play “everyday” at OKC.

Andrew beat Joc in spring stats, but this is not about the Spring Battle – it is about the War to win the World Series. It’s based upon a lot of things, not just a spring training batting average!

Chris Taylor hit .354 with a .483 OB% last Spring and did not make the team. Cody Bellinger hit .393 with a .541 OB% in 2016 and did not make the team in 2016.  In 2013, Yasiel Puig hit .517 with a .500 OB% (no walks) and he did not make the team, so Andrew Toles .283 is chicken feed, and it’s chicken _________ if you think this was somehow bad for Toles.

Look, I think Joc needs a fresh start, but he’s not going to get it in OKC.  Hopefully, he will do well and improve his trade value so that the Dodgers can move him… or not.  Joc has remarkable power and that is something everyone, including the Dodgers, covet.

There is a lot of ground to cover and a lot of things to be decided, but I guarantee that Andrew Friedman, Farhan Zaidi and Dave Roberts have had in depth conversations with Toles.  He has not been wronged and I doubt that he thinks so.  His time will come… and soon!

The bottom line is that Joc will likely do one of three things:

  1. He will do poorly;
  2. He will do very well; or
  3. He will get traded.

His trade value will only be enhanced if he does well on the Dodgers.  This is a low risk, high reward situation.  There is no right or wrong, just what it really is – reality!

Toles will be back… or he could be part of a blockbuster trade (I hope not).

Matt Kemp for MVP!

This roster will change a lot.  Don’t Panic!

 

Discussion (90)

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  1. TherealtenMarch 30, 2018

    Spoke too soon on grandal

  2. TherealtenMarch 30, 2018

    What a pathetic offense! Kershaw should have stayed in for his bat. Totally agree with Hawkeye on homerun pitch. Blach would win cy young if he could pitch against la every game. I know just game one but Taylor with the go ahead run at second after seeing 7 straight sliders looks at it right down the middle….maybe could have used Stanton today. Well got to say Grandal has looked good today. Seager picks up right where he left off swinging at every pitch and Bellinger embarrassing. Oh well just overreacting because I rarely get to see them play and when I do this is extremely frustrating.

  3. HawkeyeDodgerMarch 30, 2018

    I’ve been bitching about that stupid 3/4 delivery for two years. It gets hammered consistently. Especially by lefties. Honeycutt needs to have the balls to tell him to lose it.

  4. HawkeyeDodgerMarch 30, 2018

    A-rod is terrible. Worse than Mendoza. Every time he’s predicted a pitch type he’s been wrong. He said that 31 is the new 41 like he and the rest of the juicers didn’t have anything to do with that.

  5. boboMarch 29, 2018

    Can anyone remember when a lone voice in the wilderness was predicting Kemp would be starting in LF on opening day?

    Same guy that awards the chicken dinners. Good call.

  6. dodgerrickMarch 29, 2018

    Yimi Garcia to start the season on the DL.

  7. SoCalGrinchMarch 29, 2018

    Interesting order. not surprised by who is starting-these were my expected starters but I wouldn’t have predicted this batting order.

    .

    Today’s Dodger lineup vs. Giants:

    Taylor CF

    Seager SS

    Puig RF

    Hernández 2B

    Bellinger 1B

    Kemp LF

    Grandal C

    Forsythe 3B

    Kershaw P

  8. BlutoMarch 29, 2018

    Stuff from Heyman:

    `

    1. Some are suggesting the Dodgers may not spend next winter after resetting their tax this year by getting below the $197 million threshold. But that would defeat the purpose of getting themselves below the threshold. At the very least, they will attempt to extend Clayton Kershaw, as Dodgers owner Mark Walter suggested in this space a few weeks ago.

    `

    2. Yasmani Grandal is back to being the No. 1 catcher after Austin Barnes had wrested the job for the World Series.

    `

    3. Klay’s brother Trayce Thompson was DFA’ed. They don’t expect him to clear, according to McCullough.

    `

    4. Bravo, Dodgers owner Mark Walter. The team donated $2 million to help Puerto Rico.

    `

    Stuff from the recent Longenhagen chat:

    `

    Does spring training matter: Was there any prospect that really impressed you this spring? Maybe you were low on someone and then was like why they might actually turn out better then I though?

    `

    Eric A Longenhagen: Dodgers OF who played both ways at BC. Donovan Casey.

    `

    Guest: Do you think that Trevor Oaks can be a big league starter?

    `

    Eric A Longenhagen: I think he’s a 5th/6th starter but I know scouts who like him a little better than that.

    `

    MK: What team has drafted the best in the past 3 years?

    `

    Eric A Longenhagen: LAD or NYY….. Yeah, it’s probably one of those two

  9. BlutoMarch 29, 2018

    ESPN ranks the Dodgers #2 in MLB. I think that’s a bit rich, but it’s definitely great to read.

    Can’t be upset at positive news.

    Since it’s free, I’m pasting the forecast below:

    2. Los Angeles Dodgers

    2018 projected record: 95-67 (first in NL West)

    World Series odds: 9-2

    Best case: It’s championship or bust for a Dodgers team that came one stinking win from taking it all in 2017. While no one in L.A. would admit it, what might aid that cause is if a couple of starters beyond Clayton Kershaw prove so adept at navigating beyond 18 batters that it convinces Dave Roberts to give them a little longer leash in the postseason. Alex Wood, Rich Hill, Kenta Maeda, Walker Buehler — whoever. Just two arms that can ease the burden of Roberts’ postseason bullpen.

    Worst case: There is so much redundancy built into the Dodgers’ roster that it almost feels immune to worst-case scenarios. But they exist for everyone. All teams, even the Dodgers, rely on a certain bit of star power. If Justin Turner’s wrist injury lingers and ruins his season, and if Corey Seager’s elbow becomes a bigger problem, and if Cody Bellinger’s strikeout-heavy cold stretches become a strikeout-heavy cold season, and if Kershaw’s back problems resurface, and if Kenley Jansen’s hamstring pops … you get the picture. Still, a lot of things have to go wrong to keep the Dodgers from the ranks of the elite.

    Make-or-break player: Seager is probably the closest thing to a make-or-break player that the Dodgers have. If his elbow keeps him out of the lineup or unable to make the requisite throws from shortstop — and there has been no indication this spring that will be the case — then it creates an unfortunate domino effect. L.A. is deep all over but less deep at shortstop than any other position. Chris Taylor can play there, as can Enrique Hernandez. But if Taylor is taken out of center field, it creates a defensive hole at that spot, and Hernandez is valuable as a utility guy but might not be able to start against righties, anyway. It would simplify matters if Seager’s elbow stays sound.

  10. Mark TimmonsMarch 29, 2018

    6) Kemp and Granada hit 35 HR

    7) Kershaw wins Cy Young

    8) Bellinger and Seager are in Top 5 for MVP

  11. BobbyMarch 29, 2018

    Happy Opening Day all!!! Since it’s now official, I”ll make my official baseball predictions for 2018 (last year on opening day, I predicted 100 wins and a title. I was close…)

    1) We win at least 97 games and win the division by 10 games or so

    2) We beat NY in the World Series

    3) Puig hits 35 hr

    4) Kike winds up being our 2b starter most of the year and hits 25 hr (Bum will agree with me on this)

    5) Chris Archer or Marcus Stroman will be Dodgers come July

  12. Vegas DodgerMarch 29, 2018

    Around the Division:

    Giants: Adding Austin Jackson, Longoria and Cutch will help the lineup a ton but injuries to the rotation have Blach, Cueto, Derek Holland and Chris Stratton and ? Bullpen added Watson and has Melancon but is iffy otherwise.

    Snakes: Great lineup and good rotation but bullpen has no clear closer and Greinke has battled a groin injury and Ray has struggled all spring. Corbin, Walker and Godwin will need to step up.

    Rocks: Another great lineup and team invested over $100 M in the bullpen. The rotation of Gray, Anderson, Freeland, Bettis and Marquez with Senzatella as swingman does not strike fear. #2 prospect Ryan McMahon forced his way onto the roster with a big spring. He is a LH bat who can play 1B, 2B and 3B.

    Madres: Adding Hosmer and Headly give Myers some protection but OF defense is suspect. Rotation is a mess with Richard, Erlin, Perdomo and Mitchell and Tyson Ross called up when a 5th starter is needed with Lamet on the shelf. Bullpen is not much past Brad Hand. 2B and 3B are glove guys with no stick.

    With Division foes facing off early it will not be long before the picture starts to clear up. The Dodgers look more ready than last year to get off to a good start. Kershaw, Wood and Maeda look ready to go but Hill and Ryu need to refine their command. The bullpen will be a work in progress but Chargois and Cingrani look like the best set up men right now. Alexander is a more 6th and 7th inning guy and Baez and Fields are like the same pitcher, maybe don’t use both in the same game. Stripling and Font should be in low leverage spots for now. Kike gets a big chance to step up with JT out and Puig and Kemp will be tested in the 3 and 5 spots in the lineup. Logan and Grandal have hit well this spring and Taylor has been coming on late.

  13. baseball1439March 29, 2018

    It is finally here, Dodger baseball starts today.

    Things I Do In The Baseball Season

    I try to watch as many Dodger games as I can, but my work keeps me busy. When watching games I turn the sound off as I am not interested in what is being said as I am filling out a scorecard, writing notes, and the thing I enjoy the most, playing manager.

    I try to see 3 or 4 Dodger games each year, this year I have plans for the Dodger vs the Brewers in Milwaukee on July 21 and 22, and the Cardinals in St Louis on September 15 and 16.

    I try to keep up with the minor leagues as I will pick a player or two on each team and follow them throughout the season.

    My thoughts on the Dodgers season-opening roster.

    Everything Mark said above except for his next to the last sentence I agree with 100%. This is it for Pederson, just too much talent coming up with more upside than he has shown. Farmer will be an interesting player to watch, he could be a major surprise, or he could be back in OKC, by the end of May.

    The bullpen I feel will be a revolving door until FAZ feels they have the right arms.

    The starting pitching looks good on paper but I have a few worries

    My Wishes For The Season

    I have two and they are the same for every season.

    1 The Dodgers win the division.

    2 The Dodgers take the season series from the team and the fans I just can’t stand, the giants.

    Play Ball

  14. MikeMarch 29, 2018

    I don’t agree. Fill your team with winners if you want that elusive World Series. Toles is a winner. Pederson is not. Joc always looks like he’s thinking too much at the plate and lacks confidence. Toles is like Chris Taylor and can be a catalyst near the top of the order. Toles would also make the team on most ball clubs. Joc would not. So for me the wrong decision.

  15. BobbyMarch 29, 2018

    I agree with it all!

    Does anyone know when the seasons for OKC, Tulsa, etc begin?

  16. Dirk CalderwoodMarch 29, 2018

    When Kemp starts booting the ball all over left field Toles’ll be back.

  17. IdahoalMarch 29, 2018

    I like stories like Justin Turner, Chris Taylor and now, I hope, Toles. They are guys who were not wanted. They worked hard and finally make it. You have to credit FAZ for sticking with them. I think they will do the same with Toles. I hope they have had good honest discussions with Toles. Since I do not know what was said, I have to believe they made the right decision. I know I was upset last year when Taylor did not make the team, and that worked out ok.

    I believe in what you say Mark except on one point. Early in the Spring he was playing a lot, and was playing well. The last three weeks he was not playing much and his numbers went down. Maybe that was also an indication that he needs to play every day, and he may not be that good of a part time player. It will begin tomorrow and I will root like hell for the Dodgers.

  18. Vegas DodgerMarch 29, 2018

    Well said! I predicted before ST started that guys coming back from injuries with options would open the season in AAA, like Toles, Yimi and Liberatore and likely so would Verdugo. The ones to watch were Font and Thompson with no options left (and Banuelos but he was a real long shot anyway) Thompson got a long look but there was nowhere to put him. Remember Hatcher staying up because he had no options? Eventually the clock ran out for him and it may with Font too but there are a lack of starter options if one of the front line go down so he gets a chance. I agree with your assessment of Joc and why they kept him-for now. Last year it was Gutierrez (who is no Kemp) and Van Slyke who made the cut sending Taylor down, and Hatcher and Avilan made the team over Morrow mainly because they were out of options, plus the Romo experiment was still in progress. Turner’s injury opened a spot for Farmer but he earned it with his play this spring. Is it fair? Not always but performance and injuries will dictate who plays and there is plenty of time for Toles to work on his game and be ready when he gets the call. I like Joc and hope the light goes on but I see him having no chance to unseat any of the OF starters barring injury and also being ill suited to a part time role.

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