Was Andrew Toles Treated Unfairly?
Andrew Toles was optioned to the minor leagues today, while Joc Pederson made the big club. For the record, I am an Andrew Toles fan I predicted he would be a good player long before he was called up in the first place, but now some fans think he was mistreated when they sent him back to the minors. Was he? You decide: Andrew Toles his .283 this spring,
Andrew Toles was optioned to the minor leagues today, while Joc Pederson made the big club. For the record, I am an Andrew Toles fan – I predicted he would be a good player long before he was called up in the first place, but now some fans think he was mistreated when they sent him back to the minors. Was he? You decide:
Andrew Toles his .283 this spring, but his OB% was only .286 because he has just 1 BB in 53 spring at-bats. That is troubling and unsustainable. He also needs to work on his outfield routes. I will say this: Andrew Toles has a higher upside than Joc Pederson… way higher, but he needs to improve on pitch recognition and defense. The only way to do that is to play everyday. He can only play “everyday” at OKC.
Andrew beat Joc in spring stats, but this is not about the Spring Battle – it is about the War to win the World Series. It’s based upon a lot of things, not just a spring training batting average!
Chris Taylor hit .354 with a .483 OB% last Spring and did not make the team. Cody Bellinger hit .393 with a .541 OB% in 2016 and did not make the team in 2016. In 2013, Yasiel Puig hit .517 with a .500 OB% (no walks) and he did not make the team, so Andrew Toles .283 is chicken feed, and it’s chicken _________ if you think this was somehow bad for Toles.
Look, I think Joc needs a fresh start, but he’s not going to get it in OKC. Hopefully, he will do well and improve his trade value so that the Dodgers can move him… or not. Joc has remarkable power and that is something everyone, including the Dodgers, covet.
There is a lot of ground to cover and a lot of things to be decided, but I guarantee that Andrew Friedman, Farhan Zaidi and Dave Roberts have had in depth conversations with Toles. He has not been wronged and I doubt that he thinks so. His time will come… and soon!
The bottom line is that Joc will likely do one of three things:
- He will do poorly;
- He will do very well; or
- He will get traded.
His trade value will only be enhanced if he does well on the Dodgers. This is a low risk, high reward situation. There is no right or wrong, just what it really is – reality!
Toles will be back… or he could be part of a blockbuster trade (I hope not).
Matt Kemp for MVP!
This roster will change a lot. Don’t Panic!
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Discussion (90)
Disagree, not disagreeable
Anyone concerned that Jansen is only throwing his cutter 89? He only got into 2 or 3 spring games. He probably hasn’t built up arm strength yet. Brilliant.
Well ^&*(+_)(**&^%$#!!!!!
7 hits 4 errors 0 runs in two games
When does Turner come back?!?
This team needs to wake up.
The Dodgers can’t hit themselves in the butt with both hands.
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Forsythe can’t play 3B (Tonight)
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Joe Panik is the new Giancarlo Stanton
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Sometimes i HATE baseball
Don’t Panik!
Finally, Christ has risen
Who needs a Number Two?
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The Dodgers have one: Alex “Freaking” Wood!
DODGERS HITERS ARE LOST
Cueto looks to be pretty fat!
Lineup:
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1. Taylor CF
2. Seager SS
3. Puig RF
4. Bellinger 1B
5. Grandal C
6. Kemp LF
7. Utley 1B
8. Forsythe 3B
9. Wood P
Mark, how many years do we give Joc a chance? He has tried for three years and failed. Do we give him 5 years or maybe 10 years. Just asking. I am basing my decision on what I have seen in the last three years, not what happened last night.
Stat Cast has rankings for speed and I was able to find Barnes and Kemp’s speed ratings. Barnes is 27.3 ft per second and Kemp is 25.6 ft per second. From 1st to home that could have been a pretty wide margin. I don’t want to beat a dead horse on this subject but I did think Barnes was a lot faster than Kemp and Stat Cast seems to back it up. Who knows how accurate this is. I will let Doc off the hook since it wouldn’t have made a difference last night anyway. Also, Joc’s ball that was hit last night, was hit pretty hard up the middle, however Crawford was shifted up the middle and it was hit right at him. We need a bounce back victory tonight. I can’t take another loss to the Giants right now.
AC, maybe the reason we are slow starters is because we do not keep the best 25 players to start the season. They kept Hatcher when he should of been gone a long time ago. They kept the relief pitcher from Seattle, cannot remember his name, for three years because he had a 3 year contract. Those are stupid decisions and I do not see other teams doing this. I follow Seattle and I have never seen them keep a player because they have a contract. Usually at the end of May, FAZ has figured out what they have and does jettison some players. Right now I think Joc is totally useless as a player on the Dodger team. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and move on. Even if one player makes it later on. I guess I am just mad at Joc. He had three years at the major league level. He has not succeeded doing it his way. He has not changed and that makes me mad. JT and Taylor made changes to what they were doing and succeeded. I am a very stubborn person, but Joc leaves me in his dust.
interesting article by Mike Schmidt (yeah, that Mike Schmidt) about hitting
Open on sports.yahoo.comhttps://sports.yahoo.com/column-mike-schmidt-says-freelancing-hitters-upswing-175313026–mlb.htmlJon Weisman’s back at Dodger Thoughts
Open on www.dodgerthoughts.comhttps://www.dodgerthoughts.com/2018/02/14/so-what-am-i-doing/I also wondered why a pinch runner wasn’t put in for Kemp immediately. But since I haven’t watched individual players that closely this spring, I figured maybe that the 40 pound lighter Kemp was faster than I imagined. And Mark is probably right in stating that there isn’t much of a difference in the speed of Kemp and Barnes. And the short bench could have also played a role.
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I can’t even imagine how being sent down would mess with Toles’ mind. If anything, I think he would accept it as necessary to sharpen his game both offensively and defensively after having been out almost all of last season. And I would not describe Joc as having failed last night. First off, EVERY hitter “fails” most of the time, and secondly, if memory serves, Joc hit the ball pretty hard, but it just lacked “eyes”.
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No doubt, the time of yesterday’s game, given the shadows, no doubt contributed to the lack of scoring, from both sides. Also, HR off of Kershaw would likely have been a routine fly ball if the game had started at 7:10 PT instead of 4:10 PT. The cooler night air would have likely kept it in the park, given that it barely cleared the wall at the earlier hour.
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Bobby, no need to be pissed. 161-1 isn’t a bad year. 🙂
The Dodgers are not likely to win 100+ games again this year. They have only done so twice in the 60 years that they have been in LA. Too many things have to go right to win that many games. I expect mid-90s and another Division title.
I guess I’ll have to pay closer attention to Kemps speed. I wonder why Doc even made the move with two outs if there wasn’t much of a difference? Curious thinking and I hate losing.
Ty Blach has actually been a very good pitcher against the Dodgers, including games he started against Clayton Kershaw. He now has a 2-1 record in starts against Kershaw.
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10/01/16 – 8 IP – 3-0 Giants over Dodgers
04/25/17 – 5 IP – 2-1 Dodgers win over Giants
04/29/18 – 5 IP – 1-0 Giants win over Dodgers
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Overall, he is 2-2 against the Dodgers, and in 41.1 IP over 8 games, has a 1.96 ERA against the Dodgers. In those 8 games, he was bad in only 1…September 11, 2017, a game he was not scheduled to pitch, but came in relief of Chris Stratton who faced 1 batter before being removed (Curtis Granderson strikeout). After a very good 2.2 IP, he got tagged for 4 runs on 5 hits in the 4th inning when he pitched 2/3 of an inning. Take out that inning and his ERA drops to 1.11 against the Dodgers.
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I think we have all been spoiled by Kershaw on opening day which is why yesterday was not a fun day. For the last two years they have started out no better than average. In 2016, the Dodgers were 12-13 after April, and were 21-23 as late as May 21. On June 26, they were 8 games behind the Giants. The Dodgers did not get back to 1st place until August 21, where they stayed for the remainder of the season.
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In 2017, they were 11-12 on April 27, and went on to finish April with a 14-12 record. They did not go into 1st alone until May 30 (for 2 days), and needed until June 21 before they were in 1st for good.
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For the first three years of their latest 5 year run:
2015 – 13-8 after April; 29-20 after May
2014 – 15-12 after April; 30-27 after May
2013 – 13-13 after April; 23-30 after May
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The Dodgers have not been an April/May team.
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The Dodgers offense will not take off until Seager and Bellinger do, especially with JT out.
MJ, What if Grandal hit a ball to the gap? Or if the ball got slightly away from the catcher during Grandal’s at bat? I was just surprised the move didn’t come sooner.
When Kemp reached in the 9th yesterday, I was waiting for a pinch runner for Kemp. I’m not sure why Doc waited until there were two outs before putting in Barnes to run. Anyone else wonder about this?
Dodger Stadium is a tough place to hit late in the afternoon like yesterday. So, they got the first loss out of their system.
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I am in Denver and had a few minutes to write about Toles yesterday. I will be back on April 1st.
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Something else that occured to me is that maybe FAZ is trying not to destroy Joc’s confidence. In fact, Doc showed confidence in him by using him at the end of the game game. Yes. he failed, but at least he knows they believe in him. Really, this is the only way they can create any value if they want to trade him.
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Toles is the future. Joc is ___________.
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You fill it in!
I”m pissed. I really expected us to go 162-0. There goes the bet I made in Vegas!!
Yeah guys, I know we could have hit better, but that will come around. How ’bout the bullpen though? Cingrani and Charquois were excellent. They kept the Dodgers in the game until the end. Feeling real good about that. The offense will hit, and we all know that. It’s the bullpen that worries me, and they pitched like a play-off game today.