Max Scherzer – Yea or Nay?
Before I answer with my position, let me do my best to lay out some of the factors assuredly being discussed in the Dodger “war rooms”. Max Scherzer is a HOF pitcher who can still bring it at 37. He would be a front of the rotation pitcher even with the Dodgers. This year he is 7-4 with a 2.83 ERA and an exceptional WHIP of 0.886 in 105 IP.
Before I answer with my position, let me do my best to lay out some of the factors assuredly being discussed in the Dodger “war rooms”.
Max Scherzer is a HOF pitcher who can still bring it at 37. He would be a front of the rotation pitcher even with the Dodgers. This year he is 7-4 with a 2.83 ERA and an exceptional WHIP of 0.886 in 105 IP. He has 142 strikeouts against 25 walks. That is a SO/W ratio of 5.68. He has allowed 17 HRs, which is on pace to surrender more HRs in 2021 than any other season other than his CY year of 2016 when he yielded 31.
While not in the MadBum post season class, Max has been tough. In 22 games and 112.0 IP, Max has a 7-5 records with a 3.38 ERA. He has compiled 137 strikeouts vs 46 walks, and given up 12 HRs (3 to LAD). Not as scary 2.98 SO/W. Being candid, he would probably fall into the #2 slot behind Walker Buehler who has been sparkling in post season play. 11 games, 61.1 IP, 2.35 ERA with a 1-1 WL record because LAD cannot score for Walker. He has 83 K and 22 BB and has allowed 5 HRs. Walker gets the ball in a one game WC or in Game 1 of the NLDS.
There is a lot to like about getting Max for the stretch run and October. But at what cost. A rental CF, Starling Marte, cost Oakland Jesus Luzardo. Don’t look at his stats right now. He is a 23 year old who has three plus pitches with plus command and control. He has been hurt, and like Sixto Sanchez, that has to be a concern going forward. But Oakland gave up a lot as a potential Ace for the A’s to win it this year.
Farhan says he is not giving up Joey Bart for a rental. So does Andrew regarding Keibert Ruiz. Will one blink? Or will Preller swoop in and include Luis Campusano? All three front runners have a catcher that Washington would covet.
Who knows the truth when Scott Boras opens his mouth, but his latest comments indicate that he is NOT looking for an extension. Boras prefers negotiating with all 30 teams over 1. He will still ask for something. Maybe he will want to move up the $10MM deferral from 2028 to some time sooner. Maybe tax issues. Who knows, but it will not be free to waive Max’s no trade clause.
On the flip side, Max is not unbeatable. In the postseason, Max is 1-1 against LAD. In 13.0 IP he has allowed 5 runs (3.46 ERA) with 12 Ks and 3 BBs. And as previously indicated, he allowed 3 HRs in those 12 innings.
I am writing this before Wednesday’s game, but Max would not have made a difference in Julio’s start. Well I guess he could have allowed 0 runs. The 8th inning error would still have occurred, and we all know how LAD does in extra inning games. The starting pitching has not been a problem now that Gonsolin and Price are stretching out. As many on this site (and others) have said, this team is not going to win unless Mookie, Seags, and Clayton Kershaw come back healthy, and Belli turns it around. CT3 can play 2B and Lux can go to the bench for this year. I like Lux, and think he will be a star, just not this year.
Scherzer would make any rotation better. But is starting pitching really a problem? How much would Scherzer add to Buehler, Urias, Kershaw if the Dodgers can find another option (internally or externally)?
Would I include Keibert Ruiz for a rental, even one as good as Max Scherzer? No. I would include Ruiz for Luis Castillo, but the Reds do not need another catcher. They have a fine catcher (more than fine) in 24 year old Tyler Stephenson. Jose Berrios? I do not think Berrios is that big of an upgrade over what the Dodgers have to move their #1 prospect. He would be better than the current #4, but at the cost of Ruiz? And Minnesota NEEDS catching, so you know Ruiz would be a must. Byron Buxton? He just cannot stay on the field enough. LAD has enough injury concerns.
I m not opposed to trading Keibert, but not a knee-jerk reaction at the trade deadline. Take some time to see if there is another option next winter, and see how much Cartaya develops. I am sorry for all of you Austin Barnes haters, but he is a perfect backup catcher. The pitchers love to pitch to him, and he hits enough, not a lot, but enough for this supposed offensive juggernaut. As so many complain about his inability to throw out runners, although by the slimmest of margins, Barnes has a better rate at the ML level than does Ruiz at MiLB. Ruiz has still not improved his transfer from glove to hand enough to bring that CS% up. Bringing up Ruiz now would put him on the bench as a PH, and why take him away from playing every day? Hold on for a month, and he will get called up. Smith is an AS catcher (forget what the votes said). Why should he move? Can he play ML 2B or 3B? He hasn’t yet, so how do you know. Because he played some there in college? He is an exceptional athlete so he can move there as a fill in, but I am not convinced he can play enough defensively to stay there. I am amazed at the number of fans who do not value defense. As I said about Seattle, worry about 2022 in the winter.
If the cost for Scherzer is Cartaya and Beeter, make the trade. If AF needs to add another top 20-30 player, okay. Cartaya is a top 100 prospect. In 2017, I wanted Justin Verlander in the worst way. MT and I had some very “healthy” discussions on the merits of Justin Verlander, who like Scherzer had a no-trade clause. Justin wanted to come to LA, so he would have waived it as he did for Houston. Verlander with 2+ years of control brought two top 10 prospects, prospects, and one #23. The best of the bunch, Franklin Perez, who was a top 100 player, has just been a mess with arm issues, and has not pitched since 2019. He had shoulder surgery earlier this season. Daz Cameron (CF) and Jake Rogers (C) were the other two. Scherzer is older and a rental. Cartaya, Beeter, and Jackson, may be an overpay for a rental, but one I would do. Washington probably would not.
Other options: If the offense turns around with the addition of Mookie and Seags, and Kershaw comes back healthy, LAD can live with Price or Gonsolin as #4 and #5. I still like the idea of adding Wade Miley. The cost would be more than reasonable for a #5 pitcher who could be a big lefty out of the pen in the post season. Miley has a $10MM option with a $1MM buyout for 2021. He also has Scherzer type numbers for ERA and WHIP.
But with the offense floundering, I would check into the cost for Kris Bryant and Craig Kimbrel. Cubs have said they are willing to combine players.
I also love the idea of Trea Turner to LAD. Lux would have to be a part of that deal, and some top pitching (other than Gray). Would Lux, Hoese, and Beeter get it done? Lux and Cartaya? Lux, Cartaya, and Kendall Williams or Andre Jackson? I think Lux becomes an AS with Washington.
I do not like to make trades because I fear what other teams may do. That is exactly how LAD ended up with a significant contract overpay for Trevor Bauer. So if SF or SD overpay to get Max, LAD should just go out and beat him. They are more than capable, and they have done it before. There are other options other than Max Scherzer, and I would like to see AF spend some of his prospect capital for a bat. I do not want to hear there is no place to play. Just like Preller did with Adam Frazier, you make room. Find a way to play a Kris Bryant or a Bryron Buxton or a Trea Turner.
My preference #1 is Max Scherzer if it does not require Keibert Ruiz. Preference #1A – Craig Kimbrel. Preference #2 a difference making bat; Turner, Bryant, Buxton. Preference #3 – Wade Miley. Preference #3A – Ian Kennedy. Preference #4 – Josh Harrison. Preference #4A – Daniel Hudson. Preference #5 – Jonathan Schoop. Preference #5A – Raisel Iglesias. Every one of those players would be an improvement.
I would also check every box possible for Luis Castillo or German Marquez. Let Seattle trade for the Tyler Anderson’s. No to Sonny Gray, Michael Pineda, Danny Duffy, or any of the other mediocre SP being discussed.
So to answer my question above, Would I trade for Max Scherzer…a definite ——-Maybe.
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Discussion (330)
Disagree, not disagreeable
Jim Bowden is gushing over this deal.
Well reading the comments it looks unanimous that this is a fantastic trade for the Dodgers and the probability that they will win the WS. If the Dodger reaction is anything like the fan reaction this will be a hell of a shot of adrenaline for the team. Time to buckle up!
Hudson to Padres. We still need a closer, we don’t want to lead playoff games after seven innings and then lose them. Can we get Kimbrel? Ian Kennedy? Who else do we have to offer Chicago or Texas?
We don’t need a bullpen if you don’t score any runs! The key to winning this year is if the bats wake up and we can consistently score 4-5 runs per game. And not 1-8-0!
Not so fast Cassidy, we still have to solve the bullpen.
I think this is a great deal. They dealt away from depth and acquired what they need this year to complete the run. Maybe they can throw some cash at Turner and extend him. With Seager, it’s up to him if he wants to come back next year and beyond. Turner gives them some leverage and Lux get’s another shot next year unless they sign Seager. They just protected themselves in case CT3 and Seager both bolt in free agency.
With the emergence and rapid rise of Pepiot, Gray became expendable. Bueller, Urias, May, Gonsolin, Pepiot and the one who shalt be named are all under contract next year, as is David Price.
I’ve been saying for the last couple of years, it’s a waste of resources to have Ruiz and Smith sharing catching duties. Smith needs to catch more, not less and Cartaya is on schedule to replace Smith when he hits free agency. Carrillo has a chance to become a solid reliever or a back of the rotation starter on a rebuilding team and Casey is a 20th rounder who’s having a solid season at AA.
All in all, I think it’s a fair deal. Gray and Casey for Scherzer then Ruiz and Carillo for Turner. It would have been nice to have a little more control, but both of these guys are impact players.
San Diego picks up Adam Frazier and the Dodgers say hold my beer and pickup Turner, basically Frazier with pop and snatch Sherzer out of their hands. Nice payback for their involvement with the Bauer saga, way to go AF!
I starting to resolve myself to the idea of Bauer being gone for the year, but I’m still holding out hope as long as there’s a chance. Bauer, Bueller, Scherzer, Kershaw, Urias in no particular order. Are you kidding me?
That was a boss move, my friends!
Maybe this is finally the definition of “Let’s be Pigs”!!
So let’s look back at the Cincy trade a couple of years ago. We get Gray and Downs for Kemp, Puig, Wood and Farmer and end up flipping them with Verdugo and Ruiz in deals for Betts, Scherzer and Turner! Now that’s playing chess! And possibly back to back WS titles! Wow
I’ve yet to see an official confirmation on the Scherzer-Trea Turner deal, but let’s have fun and assume it’s legit.
Immediate question: How do Trea Turner and Corey Seager play together? Turner is the superior shortstop, but do the Dodgers try to move Seager to 3B or 1B during a pennant drive? Does Justin Turner shift over to 1B? (Seager must have the better range?) This assumes Muncy plays 2B.
Then again, TT also has experience at 2B and CF. But I want the better glove at SS.
Or if Muncy moves back to 1B, who plays 2B? Trea, Justin or Corey? (Please don’t say Lux.) Pretty sure JT played some 2B for the Mets.
The deal, I think, signals strongly that the Dodgers don’t expect or perhaps even want Bauer back. Perhaps the report are true that he’s become a pariah in the clubhouse. At the very least he is a big PR problem. Dodger brass, methinks, want to put Bauer in the rearview mirror. They want him to be yesterday’s news.
It also signals that Dodgers will only bring back Seager if he is willing to move off SS. Well, I guess the Nationals will be in the market for a shortstop soon.
Finally, I doubt that AF is done after added these two plus Duffy. The arrival of TT and the returns of Mookie and Seager should energize the anemic offense–and maybe Belli will still get his groove back.
So will AF target Kimbrel too? He could offer Lux + Graterol. Both have “upside,” as they say.
At any rate, we could regret it all when Ruiz and Jojo Gray become perennial all stars.
But in the meantime…
Friedman stuck the landing.
Well I am ready to sign a ML contract. I have soft tissue damage in my achilles and ankle.
I got my preference #1 and preference #2. Now how can we get Preference 1A? I am not counting on that as I am sure that no matter what we fans think, Doc is going to stick with KJ.
Losing Ruiz and Gray will hurt, but a Max Scherzer and Trea Turner do not become available very often, especially in a package deal for a playoff run. It is clear that LAD wants it this year. and AF went for it, and paid plenty. They lost their #1 and #2 and #17, with the first two being MLB consensus top 100. But there is no longer any MiLB player ready for ML next year. I would like to see Busch and Vargas pushed as well as Pepiot from the pitching side. So the depth has been depleted. I am not as high on the bargain relievers as some are, so I would like to see that addressed. Although if Clayton can come back healthy, that will put Duffy and Gonsolin in the pen come playoff time.
With Gray, Ruiz, and Carrillo all on the 40, two will be replaced by Max and Trea, with the 3rd coming when Seager reports this weekend.
I am guessing that AF will make a couple more peripheral moves to bolster the pen. It is unfortunate that Garrett Cooper is out for the year, because he would have been a terrific RH bat off the bench.
He is not Jedd Gyorko, but Adam Duvall is a typical AF deadline pick. Not a great batting average or OBP, but he does have 22 HRs for Miami, which would be tied with Muncy for the team lead. RH bat coming off the bench to win it???
I am sorry to see Gray and Ruiz go, but as I said about Seattle, when you are in a position to win it this year, GO FOR IT. Worry about 2022 in the winter. Actually I am pulling for Seattle to go all in for Berrios. Let’s see how SF and SD respond. Who knows maybe Diego Cartaya will turn out to be a better prospect than Keibert, and Ryan Pepiot and Bobby Miller may turn out to be better than JoJo Gray. Mitch White should get a chance to start in place of Gray on Saturday. He has earned a shot.
It looks like it is setting up to be Walker Buehler and Max Scherzer to face the Cheaters next Tuesday and Wednesday at home. Hopefully those will both be sellouts. Make Max feel welcome so he will want to re-sign.
And it keeps Scherzer away from the Giants and Padres. Could this be a Verlander move?!!!!!!
They can rest Bellinger every day for Taylor! This would be a huge get by AF! Hopefully this will WAKE this team up!!!!!!AF has done his part! Wow!
If Bauer hadn’t screwed up, consider this rotation:
Buehler
Kershaw
Scherzer
Bauer
Urias
Not a single rotation can come close. What a shame.
Just the other day some of us were touting CT3 as our MVP. Now he may have no regular place to play. Whatever it takes, they need to start him at least 5 days a week.
Between all 3 outfield positions and short and 2nd they can rest everyone one day a week. You don’t just tell Taylor thanks for everything, you’re now a utility guy and maybe you’ll start once a week.
I won’t say I told you so but if you look back to my Sunday posts, I indicated the Dodgers should get Scherzer & Turner Now that it has happened, at a perceived much lower cost as I said we should give up Seager and Bellinger whereas now we are giving up 4 prospects (2 good ones in Ruiz & Gray). I know you all didn’t agree that they were worth acquiring for the cost of S & B but hopefully now we will have the necessary pieces to win the West Turner should help us field a more consistent offense especially with the return of Betts & Seager. Look out Gnats we are coming after you!
Great night for the LA Dodgers! Never underestimate Andrew Friedman.
Seems like this deal is an overpay unless both guys are extended.
Now get Kimbrel.
As I said earlier. People are freaking out a day early.
DJ peters was DFAd. So I assume he’s part of the Nat’s deal. Which sucks, personally. He’s my friend. A lifelong Dodger fan. But if he goes, it’s better for his career. Won’t have a legit shot in LA.
My buddy with the Angels org said Taylor Ward was just pulled mid game for the Angels AAA team. So they are making a move.
Tomorrow will be a very busy baseball day.
So the Dodger bench is now Taylor, Lux, Pujols, Barnes and who else; Beaty or McKinstry?
Just waiting for MLB to sign off wayto go AF
But let’s not start suc…… well you know what Harvey Keitel said or should I say Winston Wolfe
We still need a closer , without that everything else is moot
To me this is a dope fin move, should keep Gray going to be one helllva pitcher. And to add the dodger over paid.
Scherzer’s first start would line up to be Tuesday in Dodger Stadium against the Asterisks.
Why did the Nata do the deal?
Using Baseball America’s rankings:
The No. 4 Nats prospect has an ERA above 10.00 in Class A. The No. 6 prospect is sidelined with elbow soreness. No. 7? Hitting under .200 in Class A. No. 8? Also under .200 in Class A. No. 9 is a AA reliever. No. 10 has a 5.00+ ERA in AA.
I have been asking for Turner for a couple weeks!!
As good as Max is, I am more excited about Turner. Again, allow them to let Seager walk and adds another element to their game IF THEY USE HIS SPEED!!
I hope Roberts and AF are getting him to actually start stealing some bases