Devil s Advocate

I felt that the import of:

The middle of the lineup

The bunt

Are not what equal to what you think they are in the eyes of many modern baseball minds.

If love to see some best reporters dig into the pitching length situation. Obviously there’s reasoning behind the limited starter innings….

I’ve been really patient with Bellinger, Muncy and Pederson and I’ve refrained from piling on them. But the Dodgers have only 15 games left in the regular season and there’s no doubt in my mind that they are going to the playoffs. But I want them to keep the division winning streak going.

I’ve been thinking about the batting order and I’m not saying that I am right, but when Turner returns I’d like to see a batting lineup that has Bellinger and Muncy split apart by at least 2 batters if not 3, and Smith batting 3rd. Something like this:

Betts

Seager

Smith

Either Bellinger or Turner

Either Bellinger or Turner

Pollock

Taylor

Muncy

The last spot as a try out for the playoffs between Rios, Lux, Pederson.

I’d at least like to see Doc try that lineup a few games and see how it works.

Sorry to any Hernandez fans, but I think he is best as a pinch hitter mainly for Pederson.

I like Pederson but he has just not shown much this season. I think he needs to show us why he should be starting in the playoffs. I don’t count him out, so don’t get me wrong, but he needs to make a statement now because there are only 15 games left.

I’m very high on Will Smith and have been since 2018 in AA ball. A good hitting catcher to me is a great thing to have. So far this season he has more walks than strikeouts. 18 walks 12 strikeouts, a .425 OBP not to mention a 1.028 OPS. I absolutely love his plate discipline.

My overall assessment of the team and it’s only my opinion, I’m not saying I’m right or wrong is that this team is good. But there are 4-6 guys in the bullpen (might be less depending on who makes the playoff roster) that I hope Doc does not use in the playoffs or we might be seeing our team eliminated early like last year. And at this point I hope Doc does not start Hernandez in the playoffs barring any injuries and I would prefer Smith catching in the playoffs but if Kershaw wants Barnes as his catcher then so be it, but otherwise Smith catching. I hope our starting pitching gets healthy for the playoffs and I hope our 4 starters are in no particular order Buehler, Kershaw, Gonsolin and preferably May, but I don’t count out Urias. That’s just my opinion of the team AT THIS POINT.

My biggest fear in the playoffs is Doc. I know I pile on him a lot, but I have a different philosophy than him in certain parts of the game.

Excellent points Jeff.

Although AF is a very good GM in my opinion, I agree that he fell short at this trade deadline and also last year’s trade deadline. If the asking price was too high for Clevinger, Bauer, and Lynn then a bullpen addition was necessary given the uncertainty around Kelly and Baez. It is a mistake to miss out on adding anyone to your roster while San Diego added 9 MLB players. But I am even more concerned with trading Ross Stripling and damaging your depth in this most uncertain year. In the ten days since trading Stripling, we have already had several games where we could have used Ross either in a spot start or a relief role. And if AF really wants to allow Stripling to be a starter, he could be traded in the off season and likely for similar prospects. At this point, the sole focus needs to be on maximizing the potential to win a World Series this year or next year.

In terms of Dave Roberts, I have to give him credit for his great record, his player communication, and his professionalism. He handles the leadership role with class and integrity. However, he is limited in his in-game strategic decisions in my view. The bullpen decisions are sometimes curious and he seems to overly rely on analytics instead of using his best pitcher. Sometimes it’s better to let Graterol face a lefty rather than bring in Alexander for instance. I also have a big problem with the positional experiments like Betts at 2nd base when the division is still up for grabs. Betts and Bellinger are both gold glove caliber outfielders and the dodgers are much worse defensively when they are not in RF and CF. Sure you can give Betts some action at 2B, but why not in more lopsided games instead of starting him there. And starting Pollock in CF is a mistake and possibly cost Kershaw a run or two on Wednesday.

The other problem I have with Roberts, is his timing on trying to manufacturing runs. The double steal call that had Kike thrown out at home with Betts at the plate and only one out was ill- advised. And earlier in the game Barnes is up with second and third and no outs with the infield back which presents an ideal bunting situation to score a run and move the runner to third. The limited ability to manufacture runs rests mostly with the players, but Roberts should mandate better approaches. For instance, the Rockies consistently put balls in play the other way against the shift to score 3 runs against Treinen last weekend. In close games, these type of at bats are often the difference, and aside from Betts and Turner, the dodgers don’t seem to settle for beating the shift by going the other way.

Yes, the Dodgers have the best record in baseball, and have played great in overcoming injuries. And AF may be the best GM in baseball, and Roberts has the best career record in baseball. But the playoffs will require everyone to execute better from the players to the coaches to the front office.

Jeff Jr.,

I cannot believe that you actually took my post about blowing up the team, seriously, and even quoted me above as advocating it. Can’t you distinguish when someone is being sarcastic or ironic? Even I can see, and have said many times, that this team is loaded with talent. Why would I advocate blowing the team up as a serious possibility. I have to think it is a bias that you hold against me because I don’t speak in a voice that you think all posters should exhibit or worship at the feet of the writers of this blog. I appreciate the blog a lot because of the diversity and not because anyone agrees with me. I’ve never asked for agreement nor am I trying to sell any idea of my baseball acumen. I just write what my eyes are telling me and actually joke around a lot but some of you don’t get it.

The one thing that you nor anyone else except me, I think, put forth is the possibility that some players are not coachable. Because we have 3 players who can hit many HRs in a season but slump for a period of time or throughout a whole season as Joc, Muncy, and Belli are doing, the idea has to be put out there that these players are not learning anything more than what they came up with from the minors. No real development of a complete game. They are not without talent, but they are without tools or a tool within them to help them adjust. When I see this go on for so long in careers like Joc’s and the minor seasons that Muncy has put in, then the descent of an MVP to the Mendoza line the very next season, I wonder why would the front office not pull off some trades for these players, not blow the whole team up. They tried with Joc and Strip but it backfired.

Several sportswriters refused to believe that Muncy would continue his hot hand the first season he was brought up to us. In a sense, Muncy is not a hitter but a power player. Belli is obviously the better talent but he doesn’t play like one. Trying to flip these players for real hitters who don’t seem to have a problem knocking in runs with singles, bunts, etc., is not a bad strategy. Trying to trade an MVP for a top tier starter is also not a fantasy. Is there any doubt that we need another top tier starter? It’s our most important need at the moment and for the future window. None of the above 3 have been enough to get us a WS win. Mookie and Seager are the stars of this team now. JT has always proven his worth but is aging. No other player is showing signs of life except Pollock who has a history of injuries that have kept him off the field. History is important. CK’s history is important even though he will become a HOFer, not strong showings in the post season. The rest of the rotation is not battle tested and we have a mgr who is clueless about what to do. AF is the decision maker. He has done too little with so much.

If SD rolls over us in the playoffs, what will you or Mr. Right have to say? Obviously, he has managed the overall operations spectacularly, but he is betting the bank on MOOKIE, and Mookie alone, to be the secret ingredient on getting that elusive World Series title. Seager and Pollock and JT, all who have a history of injuries, will have to find a way to stay healthy if they wish to have any chance this season. The team is looking more vulnerable as time goes on in spite of all this talent we seem to have.

The main thing is for as many players as possible to be healthy at playoff time. This team is loaded with talent. And yes, the Padres are a real threat. But with Buhler, Baez, May, and JT healthy, and “Killer” Kelly finished with his suspension, we’ll have our best chance to complete. We have the team that we have. Maybe AF missed some opportunities to pick up extra talent, but we will be competitive with the team we have, if everyone is healthy. For the rest, the playoffs are always a crap-shoot. And having this best of 3 format for the first round is just bizarre. Getting players healthy is the only thing we can control now, and fortunately, there is still enough time for that. For the rest, the players need to rise to the occasion. And to do that, they need to not fear losing. The disappointment of coming so close so often the past several years, being cheated out of a WS win by the Astericks, and the enormous talent of this team has set up sky-high expectations. The players need to put all that aside and enjoy the ride. If they can stay healthy, stay focused, and have fun, they’ll be alright. And the rest is in the hands of the baseball gods, the luck factor that determines so much more in baseball and in life than we want to admit.

Truth Hurts. I do live in Idaho. I live in Meridian, Idaho. We have a lot of people from California, Oregon, and Washington moving to Idaho. The prices for homes are going up, up, and up.

I am camping and playing paintball today in the wild with limited assess to internet.

I have a couple of things to add:

1. You can certainly question some of Docs move but it’s just plain delusional to blame every loss on him. Players have to execute.

2. Many fans have complained about everything AF has done. Just about every trade or signing has been ridiculed. On fan who shall remain nameless said that it was foolish to give up so much for Betts when there was no way he would sign with the Dodgers. Then, months later he said that this contract might hamstring the Dodgers. AF can never do anything right! The Farmer trade was lambasted until it wasn’t.

3. Yes, SD added 9 players, maybe 1 or 2 who could play for the Dodgers. So, AF should have made moves just to make them? Clevinger may have helped up but there are questions about him. I did not think Lynn would have helped.

4. The Dodgers still have the best pitching and are at the top in offense. The pieces are there. It’s up to the players to execute. Accept that the lineup or pitching changes are part of it but it all comes down to execution. Sometimes you execute and get out executed.

5. One of the most intelligent things I have heard was in MLB Radio yesterday. They said “Statistics are irrelevant this year! It all comes down to the end!”

6. Whoever is hot, confident and with a steel determination will win it. That’s what is all boils down to. The fact is: The 8th seed could win it. This year is a crapshoot , but I believe this Dodger team wants it so bad they can taste it!

Jeff. I love your article. If we are going to win it this year some things will have to change. We are not the best team in baseball right now. I would move Muncy and Bellinger to the 8 th and 9 th spot right now. That is where they belong. They are the two worst hitting players on the team. It will not happen because of Doc. Our defense is not good. Our starting pitchers are not going longer into the games. Our bullpen, which was good, is now over worked. I believe we can play small ball, but it is not part of the plan.

Belli, Muncy and Joc seem to be one dimensional players, hitters who swing hard for homeruns. Do that all the time and you end up w alot of homers, a lot of strikeouts and a low batting avg. When you’re seeing the ball well and the pitchers make mistakes you have a better yr. When pitchers find the hole in your swing or stay on the edges you strike out more, have less homers and horrible batting avg.

That is not the kind of hitter I like. Give me someone who makes contact, goes w the pitch, has strike zone discipline and has good exit velocity. Nuf said!

A lot to unpack there Jeff.

I don’t have more to offer than I already have. Mark’s point about players executing is the the most important one as far as I’m concerned. We have been favored all year because we have the best team. That remains true only if 1. they are all there and 2. they perform commensurate with their ability. At the moment admittedly both look rather doubtful.

13 games is enough for the hitters to pull it together. If Muncy and Bellinger continue to flounder we are in trouble. We are much easier to pitch to if those two remain easy outs. As for the starters we need 4 who can go at least 5 in October. Without Buehler at 100% this staff against the better teams is vulnerable. If the bullpen follows It’s going to be an interesting finish. If it works out great. If not, I will just add it to the list of 2020 being the most bizarre year I’ve seen since 1968.

Because of the virus and the shortened season and money lost, it is harder to know what the finances of the Dodgers or any club are right now. It does give them all some protection from criticism. Who is over the cap, what is the cap for this or next year; there are answers to this, but i don’t know them, at least without substantial research. That said, i see no reason to believe that Dodgers ownership is any more inclined to go over the cap than before. They had room for Betts, and it was great that they picked him and them much more importantly signed him very long-term. That was a great move. But I think that they still basically continue in their unwillingness to pick up anyone at the trade deadline who has more than that year’s contract. Why do I say that? Because they almost never have picked up someone like that. They passed on Lackey, passed on Lester, Verlander, probably others whom I am not remembering, and they passed on Clevinger.

Well, as you note, not passed on Clevinger; they seem to have offered something, but not enough. In the Wall Street world where Friedman worked in the past, this would count as a pass. The only way it is not, is if you had little talent to offer, so could not compete with another club. The Dodgers simply chose not to outbid the Padres for either Clevinger, who might prove to be the key to a title, or Rosenthal, who would have been a nice pickup. SD wants to win now, and they made the deals. Worse than not winning this year in this weird season, the Dodgers may have let SD become the better team in their division for the next few years, at least. That would be unforgivable. Things do not exist in the abstract; it is a matter of who your competitors are, and the goal is not to let them become better than you, at least in terms of them obtaining a pitcher whom you would also benefit from having.

I’ve seen this for years here; the Dodgers seem to let another team make the big deal which could put them over the top. As i had previously commented, there is always somebody willing to bid more than you, someone who really wants to win now, while you try to be frugal. It may well be a different team each year, and maybe one or two of them damage themselves long-term, but that doesn’t help you. The Padres may well have the best pitching staff in the league for the next few years. If the Dodgers picked up Clevinger, their staff would be the best, and the Padres would not have improved theirs. That to me is worth giving up an extra minor leaguer or two.

The Dodgers needed a pitcher in the offseason, someone who could be at least a #3 if not higher. They were financially outbid for Cole; or maybe as some say, they had no chance to get him,, it was all a charade. So they went after damaged goods such as Wood and Nelson. They love to try that, it almost never works with starters, it sometimes works with relievers. I have no idea why they thought that Wood, who has not had a good season in three years, was going to be valuable. But i guess they did not have enough minor league pitchers to throw another one into the rotation, so they took him, as a familiar face. That is the kind of thing which bothers me about how the Dodgers handle the important need to build a team which will actually win the title in a given year, not just fall short again.

We all hope that May is okay, but it does not look great, with no word yet. Injuries cannot be anticipated in the individual case, but all teams have them. The Dodgers, and I blame the ownership and the GM for this, are very unwilling to pick up players with longer-term contracts, and they will always want to hope that one of their homegrown players can do the job, since they are far cheaper, and provide more payroll flexibility. This approach has done well in terms of having very successful regular seasons, but when it comes to winning the different season of the playoffs, other clubs have fared better, often with the aid of some valuable midseason pickups. We always analyze a Dodgers season by saying that, well, we can always add a key player during the trade deadline. But that becomes an excuse, because we almost never do; and then we are forced to battle with clubs which have taken more risks and picked up one or more players who might actually get them to a title, if not for that year, for the next one. Which club would you favor to win the division next year, the Dodgers or the Padres? That it is at least very close, is not a compliment to the way that the Dodgers handled the trade period.

I will note that the Dodgers were a big favorite to win the pennant as of yesterday, and that surprised me. But if May is out, it is going to be very difficult to win it. Whatever the Indians were asking from us with regard to Clevinger, was it so very high, as compared to what they asked of San Diego, that we simply could not make that deal, so apparently will be going with the same staff not only for the rest of this season, but the next one, unless we go bargain hunting again and pick up some physically questionable pitcher?

Mark and Badger said it best. It is going to come down to players making the plays and getting hits in clutch situations. I hear Orel and Davis preaching night after night how hard it is for opposing pitchers to pitch to this lineup. I do not know how that is true. I have seen in the last week, which has seen the Dodgers lose 3 of 6 to sub .500 teams, more men left on base, a bunch of double play grounders, looking at strike 3 and not even attempting to protect the plate, weak fly balls to the outfield, shoddy fielding, and more than one base running blunders, than I saw the previous 1 1/2 months. If this is the BEST team in baseball, they sure as hell are not playing that way. Bumgarner had a plus 7 ERA, he barely topped 90 on any of his pitches, and they only scored when they took him deep. HR’s are great to watch. Consistently leaving men on base is not. They could just as easily lost all 3 of those games. And Jansen almost imploded enough to allow them to lose 2. How do you blow a 4 run lead if you are the closer? Jansen said something about not getting the adrenaline flowing because there are no fans to feed off of. Balderdash. You are getting paid a lot of money, although not what you signed for, to play a game. That should be incentive enough to perform at the best of your capabilities. I don’t see the lack of a crowd causing Kershaw to not be the competitor he always has been, nor Buehler either. The Dodgers, when right, bludgeon you. But the inconsistency of this group is maddening. Except for a few, none of them inspire confidence, and Badger’s blind squirrel reference could apply to not just Joc, but Muncy, Belli, and Kike also. Beaty and Rios could not really be expected to carry the weight off of the bench. Neither has seen enough playing time to get any sort of feel for the game. They really miss JT. Their weakness lies in the fact that if a major piece goes down, such as Turner, they do not have a player of similar caliber to plug in. Oh, they have options, and as Doc does, they use so many different lineups, you would need a box of score cards to keep up. But right now they have no continuity. And anyone who thinks that just because they have good stats that this is the best pitching staff in the league, had better check on some of the other contenders. This starting rotation, minus the 3 wins Strip got, has a total of 10 wins. That means the bullpen has gotten 19 of those 32 wins they have. That is one hell of a workload. Sorry. AF screwed the pooch. Not by trading for a starter, but by placing so much trust in the team he has. And I heard him say it many times in interviews. We believe in the guys we have. He also said any fixes would come internally. Well, he now has a chance to prove that they have the players to make this better in house. And he has 15 games for them to show their wares. Actually 14 since no roster moves have been announced so far today. Hell, give it a shot AF. Let Grey and White take a turn. Why not Sborz, who has been up and down more than an elevator at a Marriot hotel. Bat Belli 9th. He is one of the fastest players on the team, he can’t hurt them with another weak assed grounder into the shift down there, and he just might frippen relax at the plate. Bat Smith 3rd until Turner gets back. He is making more solid contact that any player on the team, including Corey and Betts, and take Kenley and his over loaded ego out of the closer’s job and have a closer by committee. It might just keep the fan base from getting ulcers.

Good report and observations, AC. I agree with them. You call it a unchangeable trend on Doc’s part on the lineup placement of the batters like Cody and Max. But could it also be described as a little “stubbornness”?

I thoroughly agree with you on keeping a consistent lineup and position. Good job. Now let us go whip those Astros.

Those are some eye opening stats for our offense Jeff D. What does Roberts and the front office do come playoff time when Bellinger, Muncy, and Pederson are not hitting any better? Do you continue to write them in at the top of the lineup and hope something finally clicks. With their playoff histories that’s a huge risk. Or do you hit them in the 7-9 spots and hope they can get on base for Betts and Seager hit them in. It will be just another reason to criticize the front office and Roberts. It’s kind of a no win situation.

I knew the innings per start were low, but I didn’t realize they were that low. Maybe having all the extra bullpen pitchers Roberts doesn’t think lengthy starts are important or necessary. That may come back to bite the Dodgers during the playoffs. Speaking of the playoffs, the Dodgers just can’t get a break because of how they are set up this year. I mean, what is the point of having the best record in baseball? What’s the advantage? Sure, we get to play the third wild card (eighth seed), but in a short 3 game series where anything can happen (and probably will with the Dodgers involved). As mentioned above, whoever is hot come playoff time will win the WS. The regular season is almost irrelevant this year.

I don’t think AF could have added anyone who would have helped the team this year. Like MT states the players need to perform and execute right now. If we have the best team like most fans think, then it’s up to the players to play to their abilities (not necessarily exceed). AF is mostly out of the picture for now. We know Roberts will make some head scratching moves to try to make it more difficult to win. But, at the end it’s the players who hold the responsibility of winning the World Series this year. It’s that simple. Just do it!

I wonder about Buehler blister. Rich Hill had chronic blister problems which, as I recall, were fixed using some sort of laser treatment. I would think the training staff would use the same approach on Buehler, so why the recurring blister issues.

Have to agree with Bear’s take on Jansen. If you can’t get your adrenaline up, then you shouldn’t be closing. Perhaps the plan is to roll Jansen out for now but if he doesn’t show he has it to use McGee/Treinen during the playoffs.

As many have stated for years we feast on the poor teams. Waiting for fastballs. But once we face some good pitchers in the playoffs, who can throw offspeed for strikes. We are sunk. Beli, Seager, Pollock. Struck out 500 times in the World Series. Do you think they will turn it around this year??

To say the Dodgers don’t add at deadlines is just not true. We got Manny, we got Darvish, we got Machado, we got Hanley, we got Gonzalez. We’ve been “in” on several names every year for a long time. AF doesn’t overpay because frankly he doesn’t need to.

This is our team and it’s a damm good one. Those players who are slumping know who they are and they know there is little time to get together. But there is time. If they continue their collective slumps? If our starters don’t make it back from injuries? Oh well. Let the crazy continue.

Please tell me I am wrong, but did MLB reward the Cheating Astros a stadium to use in the bubble playoffs?

Thanks AC. Whew. I mistakingly read that the two Texas places for the bubble playoffs were Arlington and Houston. Glad I was wrong.

Thanks AC. Whew. I mistakingly read that the two Texas places for the bubble playoffs were Arlington and Houston. Glad I was wrong because did not think they deserved it in Houston for any AL or NL team to play there.

The A’s just received bad news. Matt Chapman is out for the year.

I get that the players performance is on them. I really do. And I realize Doc is a players manager. He is a great communicator, and has the respect of his players. What I wish, is that just for once he would go all Tommy Lasorda on them. This team might be hungry, but there is a lot of complacency in that clubhouse. It is almost as if Doc is afraid to rock the boat as it were. He is definitely a company man, and he does pretty much what the big cheeses want. And he is the kind of manager they wanted. Someone who embraces analytics, and can have a good rapport with his players. I think what they really need is a swift kick in the ass. You listen to Orel talk about Tommy, and you immediately see the differences. I remember a game when Tommy went out to take Doug Rau out of the game. And, he was miked up. What followed was a f bomb rant that rivaled what he said about Kingman. And it was close to the Bevaqua rant too. What kind of a H****S*** performance was that? I have seen better F****** pitching from a monkey, or something along those lines. He made his players believe that they could, and the did. If he was managing this team, Bellinger and Muncy would be at the bottom of the lineup. Joc would be nothing more than a scrubeanie, and Kike basically a defensive replacement. If you were not performing your best, you sat. They need more discipline, and less coddling. IMHO anyway.

Dodger fans outside of Dodger Stadium greeting the Stros bus, all over twitter. Holding signs and yelling insults. Gotta love the blue fans. New Dodger cheer for tonight…Let’s Go Dodgers, then a picture of a trash can with the Stros logo on it, and bang bang….classic. Still nothing on May’s status….hey AF> Too late to trade for a pitcher….how about Grey and White? Oh yeah, you might need a couple of those kids down there at the alternate site, so why not get them a few AB’s????

Keith Law:

Jordan: Do you see the Padres talent ever stacking up enough to overtake the dodgers for a division title? Or does LAs combination of cash and organizational acumen make SD a groomsmen for the next decade?

Keith Law: Some of it is just luck – you stay healthier one year, or you have a guy have an outlier year like Cronenworth – but I will say no large-market team would scare me more as a competitor than the Dodgers. They’re extremely strong at the major-league and minor-league levels, they keep finding high-end talent in the draft even when they draft low, and they’re exceptionally well-run.

X-rays show no fracture for May, just a contusion. No decision as to when he’ll be back.

Baez back tonight. No corresponding move yet.

Gonsolin starts Tuesday. Sunday will be a bullpen game.