Devil s Advocate
As Mark is prone to do, he has laid down the gauntlet. If you don’t bow down to Doc and AF you need a STUPID tattoo? I have supported both gentleman for the most part, but while I would have difficulty blaming AF too much (because of lack of insider knowledge), certainly Doc has opened himself up to scrutiny. Let’s start with AF. The Dodgers lost 2 healthy mid-rotation starting

As Mark is prone to do, he has laid down the gauntlet. If you don’t bow down to Doc and AF you need a STUPID tattoo? I have supported both gentleman for the most part, but while I would have difficulty blaming AF too much (because of lack of insider knowledge), certainly Doc has opened himself up to scrutiny.
Let’s start with AF. The Dodgers lost 2 healthy mid-rotation starting pitchers and one with health concerns over the winter (Ryu, Maeda, and Hill). Maeda (1.6) and Ryu (1.1) both have better fWAR than do any Dodger. Kershaw at 1.0 is the highest rated Dodger pitcher in fWAR.
The pitcher AF acquired to help offset the loss of Ryu/Maeda/Hill in the winter, David Price, opted out of this crazy season, so the best the team could do was to go with their two co-Aces (Kersh and Buehler), two kids (Urias and May), and two hybrid pitchers (Strip and Wood). Can’t blame AF for the circumstances of the season. Their two Aces started out the season on the IL, and the team needed to insert Dustin May into the rotation. Tony Gonsolin was not ready to join the roster until later on. Ross Stripling had already stepped into David Price’s spot in the rotation, leaving the initial rotation of the two kids the two hybrids, and Walker Buehler in the #5 spot in the rotation
After his first start, Wood went on the IL and Gonsolin started in his place. Kershaw returned on August 2 and Gonsolin was optioned back to USC. Since then, the rotation has been in flux with Kershaw. Buehler, Urias, May, Gonsolin, and Strip all making starts. Since the end of August, Buehler has gone on the IL with blisters and Strip was traded. Buehler has since returned from the IL for two starts, but is now back on the IL, again with blisters. He is due to come off the IL during the Rockies series, and should have two starts heading into the playoffs.
As I am writing this, I have no idea how Dustin May’s foot is, but even if the foot is not broken, May will probably miss his next start and leave him with two starts to ramp up as well. The Dodgers should be able to put a rotation together in the playoffs consisting of four of Kershaw, Buehler, Urias, Gonsolin, and May. How healthy they will be, or how deep they can go, will be two huge questions.
While I was a strong advocate for a veteran starter, I cannot blame AF for not getting one. There are multiple sources that indicated that the Dodgers were the other offer for Mike Clevinger, but San Diego increased their offer significantly and acquired him. While the price San Diego paid was heavy, it does not in any way impede their future. Their top prospects are still intact. It is entirely possible that Cleveland did not want the top prospects AF was offering. I also have no idea as to who Texas was asking for Lance Lynn, so how can I hold AF accountable for not acquiring him? Since he was not traded, there can be no comparison. So if anyone wants to blame AF, they better have a real understanding as to who Cleveland or Texas wanted.
However, I did have a problem with two areas that were not addressed; a RH bat off the bench and another RHRP.
RHRP – LAD was without two of their late inning high leverage relievers, and there is no indication as to whether Pedro Baez or Joe Kelly could return to resume those roles in a high quality return. In addition, while the loss of Ross Stripling may be seen as a blessing by many, it was still a loss of a previously effective RH reliever in a long role. There was one late inning RHRP who was not only available, but was also traded to SD…Trevor Rosenthal. The cost to SD, was OF Edward Olivares and a PTBNL I cannot believe that AF could not have offered a better package than Edward Olivares for a quality RHRP with excellent post season resume. Although Olivares’ career with KC has started out well. With the questionable effectiveness going forward with KJ, Trevor Rosenthal would have been very beneficial. Thus far for SD, Rosenthal has finished four games for the Padres, two save situations and two non-save situations. He completed the two saves and in those four games, he has pitched 4.0 IP, allowing 0 runs, 2 hits, 1 walk, and 6 K’s. With Rosenthal and Pomeranz, SD has a very good back end of the bullpen.
The second area that could (should) have been addressed is the RH bat off the bench. The Dodgers are way too LH dominant (hitting and pitching). Currently there are 12 position players on the 28 man roster:
With two RH hitting catchers, that leaves Kike’, Betts, Pollock, and CT3 as the only RH bats. Mookie and AJ should be in the lineup, and one of Kike’ or CT3 also figure to be a starter, leaving the one not in the lineup as the RH bat coming off the bench (probably Kike’). While I am not as down on Kike’ as many are, I would prefer a David Freese type. I was an advocate for Starling Marte, but I am not sure AZ would have traded him to LA or what LAD would do with him. IMO he and AJ could have been the LF/DH combo. I cannot blame AF for not acquiring Marte. It was probably out of his control. Moreland seems to be fitting in nicely filling in for Eric Hosmer. He will return to DH once Hosmer gets back. Rosenthal, Moreland, the two catchers (Nola and Castro) and Clevinger have significantly improved the Padres, while AF did nothing. Time will tell whose strategy was better. I am just not sure I can blame AF, and advocate to blow this team up as Jeff suggested.
Now for Doc. Doc is absolutely a players manager. He communicates well with the players and the media. But his game strategy does leave to some bewilderment. I am not going back to prior seasons. Those have been chronicled and dissected enough.
1. Not one Dodger pitcher has pitched enough innings to qualify for post season awards. The max pitches that Doc appears to allow the pitcher to throw is mid 90’s, and that generally maxes out a 6.0 innings, if the pitcher gets that far.
- Clayton Kershaw – Average 6.0 IP/start and 89 pitches. He does have two 7.0 IP (out of 7) games and has a pitch max of 99 (game 6)
- Julio Urias – Average 4.2 IP/start and 77 pitches. He does have three 6.0 IP games (out of 8) and has a pitch max of 90 (game 2)
- Walker Buehler – Average 4.2 IP/start and 76 pitches. He has one 6.0 IP game (out of 7) and has a pitch max of 92 (game 5)
- Dustin May – Average 5.0 IP/start and 79 pitches. He has three 6.0 IP games (out of 8) and a pitch max of 88 (game 5)
- Tony Gonsolin – Average 4.2 IP/start and 74 pitches. He has two 6.0 IP games (out of 6) and a pitch max of 84 (game 3)
The number of pitchers that have exceeded these parameters are substantial, and if history repeats, Dodger pitchers will not go deep into a playoff game. Dodger pitchers are not lined up to be able to go 110-115 pitches per game unless they can increase their ramping up. Will they? Under Doc, I do not see how. You cannot expect a pitcher to simply increase the number pitches during the playoffs without previously done so. The relievers are already working overtime. In the last five games, starters have gone 19 IP, while relievers have gone 27.0 IP.
2. The placement of Mookie at 2B and Kike’ in RF made no sense. There were 16 games to play, and the Dodgers had a 4.5 game lead over a vastly improved Padres team. That is not enough to get arrogant. Yes, I believe it was arrogant. I do not think that it cost the Dodgers the game, but it seems it cost them some runs against. The team has been sloppy, and now is the time for the team to start getting their edge, not just participating. This reminds me of the Dodgers play in August/September of 2017. At that time, the team was capable of putting the bad games behind them, and get back to playing elite baseball, and that is what happened. Will they be able to this year? It is not always easy to turn it off and turn it on.
3. The placement of Muncy/Bellinger/Joc in the batting lineup is hurting the team.
On 9/5 – Muncy batted 3rd and was hitting .209/.337/.446/.783 to start the game. Belli batted 4th and was hitting .226/.302/.466/.768 to start the game. Joc batted 5th and was hitting .191/.296/.415/.711 to start the game.
On 9/6 – Muncy batted 3rd and was hitting .203/.329/.434/.763. Belli batted 4th and was hitting .221/.301/.456/.758.
On 9/8 – Muncy batted 3rd and was hitting .200/.333/.428/.761. Belli batted 4th and was hitting .216/.294/.444/.739.
On 9/9 – Belli batted 4th and was hitting .217/.301/.439/.741. Muncy batted 5th and was hitting .201/.339/.423/.762.
On 9/10 – Muncy batted 4th and was hitting .205/.351/.424/.775. Belli batted 5th and was hitting .210/.293/.426/.719.
After the game Muncy was .199/.342/.410/.752 and Belli was .211/.292/.422/.714.
That is important because the hitters in the middle of the order should be the ones driving in runs. This team is not playing sound fundamental baseball since September and the continuance of Muncy and Belli in the 3rd and 4th position in the lineup has failed for the entire month.
- Belli – 7 games – .143/.226/.143/.369 – 4 for 28, no extra base hits, no RBI’s, 3BB, 4K
- Muncy – 9 games – .188/.381/.281/.662 – 6 for 32, 1 HR, 1 RBI, 10 BB, 11K
- Joc – 4 games – .077/.143/.308/.451 – 1 for 13, 1 HR, 1 RBI, 1BB, 3K
- Mookie – 8 games – .314/.385/.571/.956 – 11 for 35, 3 HR, 7 RBI, 4 BB, 4 K
- Seager – 9 games – .324/.395/.649/1.044 – 12 for 37, 3 HR, 7 RBI, 5BB, 8K
- Pollock – 9 games – .368/.385/.632/1.016 – 14 for 38, 3 HR, 5 RBI, 1BB, 10K
- CT3 – 8 games – .290/.389/.484/.873 – 9 for 31, 1 HR, 9 RBI, 4BB, 7K
- Kike’ – 5 games – .353/.400/.588/.988 – 6 for 17, 1 HR, 4 RBI, 2BB, 1K
- Lux – 7 games – .192/.323/.462/.784 – 5 for 26, 2 HR, 6 RBI, 5BB, 7K
- Smith – 6 games – .450/.560/.800/1.360 – 9 for 20, 2 HR, 4 RBI, 5BB, 2K
- Barnes – 4 games – .154/.313/.231/.543 – 2 for 13, 1 DBL, 0 RBI, 3BB, 3K
Mookie and Corey were certainly doing their job getting on base, but neither Belli nor Muncy could drive them in. Why would the manager continually place Belli and Muncy in the key RBI positions when they were not performing? That is the manager’s job to make changes. AJ, Smith, and CT3 should be batting higher. I recognize that Muncy did have 10 walks driving up his OBP. However, he is in a run producing position in the batting lineup. If he wants to be patient and look for walks instead of being aggressive, put him down in the order and let him get on base for Mookie and Corey to drive in. But don’t harm the team by putting Belli and Muncy in the middle of the lineup with 1 extra base hit and 1 RBI for the month of September.
4. Why isn’t the manager working with the hitting coaches to move away from the all or nothing approach, and have the team bunt out of the shift, or play pepper and spraying the ball out of the shift. I like the HR as much as anyone, but when the player is not barreling up, why not change the strategy to take advantage of the situation. Isn’t it the manager’s job to implement a strategy for optimum results. Yes Belli and Muncy and Joc are the power hitters, but when they have a combined 2 RBIs for the first 9 games of the month, something is not working. Make the change. Adjust.
5. When JT returns, the lineup changes should cease. The team will have 13 games remaining when they meet the Padres on Monday. Doc has the responsibility to fill out the lineups. Put a consistent team on the field. The batting lineup may change, but the defense needs to be consistent. I have no say whatsoever, but my defense would be:
- 1B – Max
- 2B – CT3
- 3B – JT
- SS – Corey
- LF – AJ
- CF – Belli
- RF – Mookie
- C – Fresh Prince (Barnes catches Kershaw).
There is no reason to show diversification. Keep players in the respective positions through the playoffs.
Summary, either the players are not good enough, or the manager is not putting the players in the best opportunity to win. I think most on this site would agree that the LAD roster (overall) is second to none. Then why is the team faltering against the worst team in the NL? Why did they lose two out of three to a team the Padres swept? If it is simply a team slump, why isn’t the manager shaking up the lineup moving Belli and Muncy way down in the lineup? I may not have the communication skills of Dave Roberts, but I can certainly pencil in Belli and Muncy in the middle of the lineup regardless as to how they are playing.
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Discussion (158)
Disagree, not disagreeable
Like everyone else here, I was stunned that Doc left Jansen in so long. Part of me wondered if Doc was trying to make a point to AF, but it’s too late to for that since the trade deadline has passed. But that doesn’t seem to be Doc’s style either.
Will Doc avoid Jansen in tough situations in the postseason again, as he did last year in game 5 against the Nationals (and lost)?
Jansen has one year left on his contract. The offseason could be interesting. Given his history on the team, I think it would be difficult to keep him in a set-up role.
I cant see Dodgers win with this closer, even the division
The Roberts spin machine is at work. Check out his comments on dodgers.com. Laughable. And oh yeah, Jansen is still the closer. And a couple of those hits were on his 4 seam fast ball, not his cutter.
Too bad he works for FOX and not the Dodgers…maybe they could trade Hershiser for him.
This is why I always talk about the bullpen (and I might annoy people by talking about the bullpen so much) and why I am never content with the bullpen and always looking to upgrade the bullpen. Think how it would feel if this was a playoff game and better yet in a three-game series playoff game.
Well crap.
It isn’t second guessing tonight. We could all see Jansen didn’t have it. And this isn’t about Rosenthal. He wouldn’t have been in there. This is about Jansen and Roberts. Kolarek would have ended the game before they got 6. And Muncy’s error cost 1 unearned.
What to do? I doubt they do anything. Chalk it up to a bad night. If there’s another one something will be done. McGee or Treinen can handle the last inning. Heck any of our top 4 including Graterol could handle the 9th better than Jansen has.
One more thing. Lux isn’t ready for an at bat like that last one. Hope he is learning.
On the plus side, it was nice to see Will Smith have a good game.
Jansen is washed up. It’s a shame he has a lot of heart but no game. I did not realize how far he has fallen. He has had some great moments for the Dodgers but they look long gone. I guess these guys playing chess while we are playing checkers must c it differently. Since they are making millions let’s bow.
I don’t blame muncy I blame the guy who played him there. He should not be at third…….
I still think we have the bullpen without Jansen
I’m sure no one will over react.
I tuned into the game to see Jansen choke again. That was ugly.
Who was the color guy next to Joe Davis in the booth? What a refreshing change from Orel!
The Doc apologist will be rare form soon. Look forward to how he might spin this disaster. KJ is like 280 Lbs and can no longer hit 90 MPH consistently. His pitches are slow, flat, little spin and certainly no cut.
Standing pat at the deadline and not getting Rosenthal (as Jeff aptly pointed out) will haunt us.
Why wasn’t someone warming up when KJ took the mound in the 9th? It is not like he has been unhittable. It took way too long for Kolarek to come in. I not only have zero confidence is KJ as a closer, I have zero confidence in him as a pitcher right now. I want someone telling me again why the Dodgers did not need Trevor Rosenthal.
If you ever lose a game to the ass tros I’m not a fan because this dodger group is not good enough or tough enough to win the big games. And Bellinger has this long swing that is not working.
Don’t blame Muncy!!
So, for all the Roberts excuse makers. This is what drives you crazy. Just sit there and watch as Jansen blows the lead and more. I don’t know how he can go into the clubhouse after that pathetic display of managing.
I can hear him now. I liked the matchup in that situation blah blah blah
Difficult to know who is the incompetent, Jensen or Doc.
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. You know Houston has to feel pretty good going into tomorrow’s game. Excuse me, but tonight, Doc has screwed the pooch. And it does two things if this ends the way it is right now. It pares 1/2 game off of that lead, and they wasted a great start by Urias, and cost him a win. I have zero confidence in Jansen right now, and if Roberts still does after the last two flame outs by that over rated ego driven has been, he is losing his mind. Twitter is blowing up.
A decision will have to be made on Jansen soon.
Thats totaly on Roberts
Hello why is Jansen still pitching?
KJ will say some BS in the post game that the ball wasn’t cutting, or couldn’t locate a cutter because his back was stiff or some other phantom BS reason. What Doc needs to do is proclaim boldly that Trienen is the teams closer going forward.
Gas Can Jansen strikes again. Why Doc did not get someone up after the first hit is beyond me. I am totally fed up with the guy. If they lose this, it is on Roberts for leaving him in.
Muncy. Arrrgh.
I have been Dodgers all my life, but tonight I wish they lose the game, to see if they will finally get rid of Jensen …. He is no longer the closer, when are they going to understand?
Are you still proud that the Dodgers have the best record?
Take out this gabage of picher before lost the game. I dont why Doc Is so nice whit the players