I got to thinking about this the other day after I saw a post on Twitter where a fan of another team, I think the Padres, was gleefully reveling in the fact that we had lost a pitcher to free agency with another team, AKA Anderson. Now, the Dodger-Giant antagonism goes back to the days the team was in Brooklyn. The two boroughs basically did not like each other. But for years, the Giants had the better team. But in the dog days, tempers would get short, and occasionally, fisticuffs would break out.
Today I think fans who dislike LA do so because the team has been so successful the last 10 years. Yes, they may be the Braves of the 2000’s, but it is not as easy to win World Series as one might think. Giant fans revel in Dodger losses, and Dodger fans revel in beating the Giants. Most other fans just wish the Dodgers would not win anything. So far in the 2000’s, the Giants have the upper hand with three Championships. The Dodgers are way ahead of any other team for division titles. And therein lies the rub with so many opposing fans. It is the conception that the Dodgers buy their titles. Same thing was said about Steinbrenner’s Yankees back in the day.
The truth is somewhere in between. Yes, the Dodger ownership has a lot of cash. They also have some very astute baseball people running the show. They would rather win and ensure a playoff spot than hope to be the wild card and more or less back into the playoffs. I live in Colorado now for many reasons, one, it is so much cheaper to live here than in California. But I get it all the time from Rockies fans. And it is “the you guys have all the money” argument. They seem to forget how many homegrown players have been on those teams. The fact of the matter is even with their low draft picks, and they find a gem now and then. They also have been extremely fortunate in some trades they have made for unknown players, and also some of their waiver claims. Of course, Taylor and Muncy are the two most well-known. The coaching staff is also adept at “fixing players”. Usually pitchers.
The bad thing about the hatred is that sometimes it degenerates into violence, both on the field and in the stands. Sometimes it continues into the parking lot, and even to bars in the surrounding areas. Two very unfortunate incidents have involved Giant-Dodgers fans fights. Brian Shaw, a Giant fan, was severely beaten in the Dodger Stadium parking lot. His injuries were pretty serious. The two perpetrators were later arrested and convicted.
The worst instance was in 2013 in San Francisco, where Dodger fan, Jonathan Denver, was stabbed to death after a fight that started in a bar. He had attended a game between the Dodgers and the Giants that evening with his father and brother. The assailant was arrested and released. The DA decided not to press charges because it could not be proved beyond any doubt that he acted in self-defense.
Those kinds of incidents are not the norm, but it does show how high passions run in the fandom of both teams. I remember well in the 70’s the arguments and fights that would break out with Reds fans. Dodger fans used to throw things at Pete Rose when he would play left field for the Reds. The Braves when they were in the Western Division, were a big rivalry and more than once I would see a Dodger fan take Umbridge to the Tomahawk chop.
Padres’ fans have become more irritated when Dodger fans seemingly take over Petco Park when they play. It got so bad in Arizona, that they would not allow anyone in Dodger gear to sit in the seats directly behind home plate, and this year, for the playoffs, the Padres restricted ticket sales to certain zip codes so the Dodger fans would have a tough time getting tickets. Myself, I try not to hate any team, severe dislike, on the other hand, is okay.
Fans and umps usually do not fight, but they did in Brooklyn once! The players on the field are not exempt either. New York and Brooklyn had some classic confrontations. One of the best remembered was a collision at first between Giants pitcher, Ruben Gomez and Carl Furillo. Gomez got flattened when covering first by Furillo. Jackie Robinson had more than one confrontation with their players. LA-SF has had its share. Marichal-Roseboro is probably the most talked about. Both Puig and Muncy had issues with Bumgarner. Chad Kreuter, when with the Dodgers, went into the stands after a fan who had stolen his cap.
I myself have never felt the desire or need to go to fisticuffs over my Dodgers. I have stood up to those who I consider obnoxious fans who gloat after one win. What does seem to me to be the case with most fans of other teams is their dislike is simply because the Dodgers A. Have money to buy whatever they need. B. Keep winning, C. Have extremely obnoxious fans…seriously, an acquaintance told me all Dodger fans were obnoxious. D. Continually dominate their team. Most of that comes from Division rivals who have not beat LA in a season series in quite a while.
My biggest pet peeve is something I have no control over, but every time it starts, I get irritated. It is simply the “Beat LA” chant that constantly pops up in SD and SF. Oh you might hear it a little in some other stadium, but at those two parks, it starts anytime they get some sort of rally going. Downright irritating. And they do it even when they are losing.
This will probably always be the case as long as the Dodgers continue to be successful.
Discussion (27)
Disagree, not disagreeable
USA beats Iran in the World Cup.
If San Diego is indeed looking for a Premier SS, I can’t think of a more perfect fit for them than Carlos Correa?
I wonder if the Dodgers would consider adding Will Smith in a package to obtain a top line starting pitcher and promoting Cartaya sooner rather than later. Thought this might be more of a possibility as a trade deadline move though.
I think whatever direction we go in filling our need positions, we go the low strikeout/contact/on-base route. also I will like a switch hitter for LF. A cheap option for LF can be J Profar.
The other big elements of Nosler’s plan is for the Dodgers to sign Senga from Japan and also Kiermaier to replace Cody’s glove in CF.
I’ve read that Senga wants to go to a major-market team that is a WS contender. So he seems plausible. Kiermaier can rule CF and bat 9th.
The prospect capital Nosler would spend to get Anderson, Happ and lesser names includes Busch, Outman, Pepiot, Knack, Becerra and the young catcher Jesus Galiz, still 3-4 years away from the ML. If the trade target is big enough, like Burnes (or Ohtani!), then I think Rushing or even Cartaya and Miller are touchable.
Will Smith figures to be the Dodgers primary catcher, or paired with either Cartaya or Rushing, for the next 5-7 years. Smith is an all-star calibre player, and the others may be in a few years. But we don’t need three catchers.
Mark, why you didn’t include in your 90 win roster YAlmonte and BGraterol?
Here is Dodger Digest piece.
http://dodgersdigest.com/2022/11/28/2022-23-dodgers-digest-offseason-plan/
Astros signing Abreu makes the world champions even better.
Dodgers have lost starting SS, CF, 3B, 3 SP (WB, TA, AH) , along with several bullpen pieces.
Yes a long way to go in offseason and AF is always patient.
But so far the Dodgers are falling behind the Astros, Padres, Braves, and Phillies.
A good article by Dustin Nosler on his off-season plan for Dodgers.
Verlander wants 3 years 130M
Abreu is getting a three-year deal pending his physical. Deal is for 58 million.
MLBTR reporting that Jose Abreu is going to sign with the Astros.
Dodgers meeting with Justin Verlander today
Something about Bogaerts. We haven’t signed a Boras client since Ryu in 14. And that worries me about Julio after next year. Mark, when can we get your updated prospect list and who will be given a legit opportunity to make the club next year? If some of the pundits are right about the Dodgers going with the kids and resetting the luxury tax. An infield of Busch, Lux and Vargas scares me defensively. Any way that happens
The Bay Area is beautiful but people there have a serious inferiority complex about SoCal.
Clevinger to the White Sox.
I wonder what it would take to get Jesse Winker? He has a world of talent, but something is off. Buy low!
I have watched him in Cincy, and he is tantalizing. I’d take him over Haniger.
I thought this was a well thought out analysis of Trea Turner. Let him be someone else’s issue.
https://youtu.be/cv7-XP0R7lE
I wondered if the Dodgers would be interested in Alex Reyes. According to reports, which we can either believe or not… they are.
Bogaerts too.
MLBTR said that the Dodgers had two hitting coaches. I thought they had three, but it turns out that Brown was listed as Hitting Coach along with RVS, and Aaron Bates was listed as Assistant Hitting Coach.
Interesting…. Hummmm…
Love the article Bear. I never participated in any beat down on either side at a sporting event, but I did take a lot of grief the one time I visited Candlestick park.
Yes, AF might have made a boo boo. But, we won’t know until Bellinger signs somewhere and Outman has 100+ K’s by the all star break.
Muncy at second base with shift rules in place would be a disaster. I have a feeling that the Dodgers will ultimately sign Correa, Haniger or both. At least that’s my preference, but I would be equally happy with Xander.
You have to make room for Vargas and Bush to play unless Busch is going to be traded.
Don’t forget, Lux could replace Bellinger in CF if they sign a SS, or Busch could wind up in LF if they don’t sign an Outfielder like Haniger.
Don’t worry Cassidy, I still here. I just went out of town for the holiday and I’m busy with school and work. Be patient, I’m half-way through with school.
Everything you want to know about the Winter Meetings… and more:
https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/white-sox/when-are-2022-mlb-winter-meetings
According to some sources that post on twitter, the Dodgers are keeping the communication line with Trea open. Winter meetings will be held starting next Monday. It should be an interesting time. Most sources seem to think that Judge will be signed sometime in the next 10 days.
Please no muncy at 2nd! Dh is his best position! Adames and burnes is very intriguing idea. But boegarts and benetendi plus degrom intrigues me more! Vargas at 3rd and figure out center field as we go. I like Thompson but I just see as a 210 hitter over the course of an entire season. Outman is still an unknown. Bellinger anyone? Still worried Friedman made a boo boo. Any rumors concerning this jt? Go Dodgers!
Love the old photos.
Also love the “BEAT LA” chants. It’s certainly a measure of respect and envy. It helps that the Lakers are similarly hated for their winning tradition. LA–aka La La Land– can get hated on multiple fronts….
So reports suggest that the AF is seriously considering the Adames option for SS.
Adames just turned 27, and under team control thru 2024. Not sure if the Brewers have a successor in the wings, but an offer of Busch + Amaya might be a starting point.
Busch might be able to replace Adames’ power, and Amaya could play SS (or UT).
Now, how much more would it take to get the Brewers to toss Burnes into the deal?
Well, Gavin Lux grew up in Kenosha, WI as a Brewers fan.
Hmm…
Adames at SS and Muncy at 2B–that could be potent.
=
Yah, Bear, beat SF or beat SD just doesn’t have the same ring to it.
Nice job, Bear. Unfortunately, most of these incidents involving fans is a direct result of too much alcohol. However, like the Shaw incident, if you’re gonna talk shit throughout a game then don’t be shocked that someone might just call you out. Not saying he deserved the injuries he sustained or condoning violence at a ballgame but he definitely shares some responsibility.
Frasso project is definitely intriguing if the the closer by committee option doesn’t work out the next few seasons. Money definitely needs to be spent elsewhere instead of on a designated closer. Too many in house options for the time being. Great info MT. Looks like Milwaukee should be active at the winter meetings. Hmmmm
VIVA AZUL
FYI: I have updated many of the TOP Prospect List right here:
https://ladodgertalk.com/top-dodger-prospects/
I will have the final update after the Rule 5 Draft
I took some time this AM to read several other blogs, and everyone is lamenting how many players we need. The sky is falling, of that, they are sure!
I happen to think the Dodgers could take the roster they have now and win close to 90 games!
1. Lux 2B
2. Betts RF
3. Freeman 1B
4. Muncy DH
5. Smith C
6. Busch LF
7. Vargas 3B
8. Outman/Thompson CF
9. Amaya SS (no hit)
Bench: Barnes, Taylor, Leonard and/or Vivas
Starting Pitchers: Urias, May, Kershaw, Gonsolin, Stone
Bullpen: Ferguson, Gonzalez, Grove, Jackson, Pepiot, Vesia, Hudson, Phillips
That team might win 90 games!
Excellent article, Bear. I love to hear the “Beat LA” Chant. No other team has their own chant. That tell us how special we are.
On another note. Bryce Harper another player who opted for ‘treatment’ instead of surgery , now getting Tommy John Surgery in November