It used to be that every team had at least one or two “workhorse” starting pitchers. These are the guys who started 33 to 37 games a season and pitched 25 complete games! In 1966, the Dodgers used a four-man rotation, which was composed of Sandy Koufax, Don Drysdale, Claude Osteen, and Don Sutton. Let’s look at the stat lines:
- Sandy Koufax – 41 GS/27 CG/323 IP/1.73 ERA
- Don Drysdale – 40 GS/11 CG/273.2 IP/3.42 ERA
- Claude Osteen – 38 GS/8 CG/ 240.1 IP/2.85 ERA
- Don Sutton – 35 GS/ 6 CG/225.2 IP/225.2
Before I continue, we need to watch this:
“The good old days weren’t always good!” Remember that part because what I am going to say next is probably going to get me crucified for baseball heresy. We will never see those kinds of numbers again (on a consistent basis). Today, the pitchers are so much better athletically. They are stronger, throw harder (faster), and the sliders and curveballs are filthier. In the process, they put so much stress and torque on their arms that injuries are a huge part of the game. Yes, there are a few “throwbacks,” such as Verlander, Cole, Scherzer, and a few others, but the human arm, shoulder, and body are just not designed to operate under that degree of stress. When asked about Sandy Koufax, an Oldtimer said this:
“He is sacred.” Koufax was an American baseball legend. He possessed a 100-mph fastball and what announcer Vin Scully called “a twelve-to-six curveball” that started at 12 o’clock then dropped to 6 o’clock. From 1963–1966, he had the best four-year span of any pitcher in baseball history.“
— Unknown
The thing is, that was the man, the myth, the legend. Some say he threw 100 MPH, but the consensus seems to be that it was around 95 MPH. It’s just that his amazing curve ball that just fell off a table made his fastball seem that much faster. Back in Sandy’s day, it was unusual to see someone throw as hard as he did. Today, the Dodgers may have 30-50 pitchers in their system who throw in the high 90’s and low 100’s! The result has been a plethora of Tommy John Surgeries and numerous other maladies induced by extreme pressure exerted upon the human body and, specifically, the arm.
If you had a time machine and dropped Micky Mantle, Willie Mays, and a number of old-time Hall-of-Fame players off into 2023, there is no doubt in my mind that they would struggle to hit. They would figure it out, but I also believe they would not have the career numbers that they did then. All of this speed and torque put on a pitcher’s arm as well as the era of specialization and analytics, has made baseball a different game.
Athletes are bigger, stronger, and faster, but ligaments and tendons are the same. What role adding 20 pounds of muscle played in blowing out Gavin Lux’s knee may never be known, but logic says it could have played a part. Let’s face it, we have never seen this great game played at such a high level by such amazing athletes as we have today.
Back in the good old days, we knew nothing about “spin rate,” launch angle, exit velocity, and the like. We did not have advanced analytics that told us a certain player could not hit a ball in a certain part of the zone. This is not written to denigrate or diminish what old-time players have done… just to show that the times have changed and are a changing.
The Dodgers AA Tulsa Rotation
Jim Callis, Sam Dykstra, and Jonathan Mayo were assigned by MLB.com to write a column on “Here is an encouraging prospect story from each farm system” Evidently, they could not find a simple player to write about for the Dodgers… so they picked six:
“Dodgers: the entire Tulsa Drillers rotation
We’re doing something different here because we couldn’t pick just one Drillers starter. Right-handers Nick Nastrini, Nick Frasso, River Ryan, Emmet Sheehan, Landon Knack and Kyle Hurt — all members of our Dodgers Top 30 — have quality stuff and are dealing in Double-A, combining for a 1.74 ERA and 165/34 K/BB ratio in 124 1/3 innings. Los Angeles has plenty of imminent pitching help and trade fodder.“
What a huge compliment. Six starters – all with nasty stuff and the Dodger’s Top Two pitching Prospects are not even there. Bobby Miller and Gavin Stone are at OKC.
Discussion (31)
Disagree, not disagreeable
* As per our chats about pitchers and durability There’s no explaining who’s going to break down and who isn’t. Analyzing mechanics is used to predict future problems but it’s still a crapshoot.
* I saw Aroldis Chapman yesterday for the Royals. 14 years in and still at 102mph. He wasn’t good but he was still at 102 after 14 years. How? He got hit on his slider. Go figure.
* Joe Kelly worked for the Sox. Still a hundo but prefers to throw 88 mph change ups now and not 24 sliders in a row. Joe or Joseph, you never know which one your going to get? Still a knucklehead.
* Then you have freaks like Nolan Ryan who rode The Express for 27 MLB seasons.
And other guys with seemingly clean mechanics breakdown and have a Tommy John or two early in their careers. Speed kills. But not everybody.
*I’ve mentioned before that if I was coaching now days, I’d be at the middle schools basketball practices and getting chummy with those coaches and asking if any of their tall kids ever pitched. The size of today’s pro pitchers continues to amaze me. So get those tall youngsters started with proper mechanics. They have no future in the NBA but do in baseball.
The problem is many high school basketball coaches want their kids playing hoops year around leaving no time for baseball.
* Fall ball is amazing. The is one 6’4”, 6’5″’, 6’6” guy after another, all at 95+ with a tight little breaking ball. I started following a relief RHP in AA with the Angels named Ivan Armstrong. He’s 22, 6’5”, 247 and an easy 100. He still struggle a little with command, like many taller pitchers. But physically, I never seen so many big, strong guys on the mound all throwing gas.
* The Royals won on a perfect walk-off safety squeeze by the way.
* I don’t know if you’ve seen it but baserunners are now using an extended oven mitt. I’m sure we will see a rule on that when they get over a foot long.
Mind boggling sentence of the day: “When the Marlins gave (pitching phenom) Eury Perez a signing bonus of $200,000 on July 2, 2019, 50 percent went to his trainer De Aza — something that is common practice in the Dominican Republic.”
Bobby Miller is NOT ready for prime time. Last night’s line at Oklahoma City: 3.1IP 3H 4R 4ER 2BB 2K 1HR 8.64 ERA 68 pitches 43 strikes 63% strikes 1 pitch violation.
In 2022, Julio Rogriguez was the ROY, and All-Star and 7th in the MVP Voting.
This year he is hitting .205 with a .654 OPS. What a fall!
05/11/23 Los Angeles Dodgers activated DH J.D. Martinez from the 10-day injured list.
05/11/23 Los Angeles Dodgers optioned RHP Wander Suero to Oklahoma City Dodgers.
05/11/23 Los Angeles Dodgers optioned 2B Michael Busch to Oklahoma City Dodgers.
There is one opening on the active roster for a pitcher and I’m assuming it will be Ferguson coming off paternity leave.
Marlins bringing up rhp Eury Perez to start friday. 20 y.o., 6’8” #6 prospect overall in MLB.
Kim Ng going for it.
Noted that for the first time (2x in this article) she states “…a human might say…”
This isn’t quite Plaschke level work but, as a quick reference tool while watching some BB – it’s super fast and pretty accurate.
This is the way.
Chatting with Chat/ GPT about Kenley J: (took 25 seconds to complete(
“Sure, I can help you with that. Here is a brief profile of Kenley Jansen:
He is a Curaçaoan professional baseball pitcher for the Boston Red Sox of Major League Baseball (MLB)12.
He was born on September 30, 1987 in Willemstad, Curacao31.
He converted from a catcher to a relief pitcher in the minor leagues, and made his major league debut in 201045.
He has previously played in MLB for the Los Angeles Dodgers and Atlanta Braves1.
He has served as the Dodgers’ closer since 2012, and led the National League (NL) in saves in 20174.
He is a 3x All-Star, 2020 World Series champion, and 2x Hoffman Reliever of the Year Award winner5.
As of May 11, 2023, he has a career record of 43 wins, 28 losses, 399 saves, 2.44 ERA, and 1123 strikeouts in 779.2 innings pitched52.
As for his chances of getting into the MLB Hall of Fame, that is a subjective question that depends on many factors, such as his longevity, consistency, postseason performance, and voting preferences. In this context, a human might say that he has a good case based on his numbers and awards, but he might face some challenges due to playing in a specialized role and having some health issues in the past. Some people may compare him to other closers who have been inducted or rejected by the Hall of Fame, such as Mariano Rivera, Trevor Hoffman, Lee Smith, or Billy Wagner.
Mariano Rivera is another legendary closer who played for the New York Yankees from 1995 to 201312. He is widely considered the greatest reliever of all time2 and the first and only player ever to be elected unanimously by the Baseball Hall of Fame1. Here are some of his achievements:
He is a Panamanian-American who was born on November 29, 1969 in Panama City, Panama12.
He was a 13-time All-Star, 5-time World Series champion, World Series MVP (1999), ALCS MVP (2003), 5-time AL Rolaids Relief Man Award winner, and Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient (2019)12.
He holds the MLB record for 652 career saves and 42 postseason saves, with a career ERA of 2.21 and a postseason ERA of 0.7012.
He was known for his signature pitch, the cut fastball, which he threw almost exclusively and which often broke hitters’ bats21.
Comparing him to Kenley Jansen, we can see that Rivera has more career saves, lower ERA, more awards, and more championships than Jansen. However, Jansen is still active and has a chance to improve his numbers and legacy. In this context, a human might say that Rivera is the clear leader in the comparison, but Jansen is also a great closer who deserves respect and admiration. Some people may argue that Rivera had more advantages playing for a dominant Yankees team and in a different era of baseball.”
Hey Bear,
Thought of you when I read this today:
https://landline.media/rep-van-drew-pay-truckers-overtime/
Let’s see how todays hitters
Would do without a helmet and body armor
Can you say jelly leg.
David: The .337 for Ozzie Smith was on base %, the 1st metric used for OPS.
Padres lost again
05/11/23 LHP Maddux Bruns assigned to Great Lakes Loons from Rancho Cucamonga Quakes.
05/10/23 RHP Jerming Rosario assigned to Great Lakes Loons from Rancho Cucamonga Quakes.
SHAM Diego just lost to the Twins today 5-2 today and are now 4 games back of the first place Dodgers. Also Darvish pitched today and will not be in the upcoming 3 game series starting tomorrow night with May vs Snell getting the party started.
DeLuca: 9 HR and 9 SB, interesting, very interesting !!!
Outman’s first and only homer in 2022, was not a grand slam. He hit a 2 run shot in Colorado in his first at bat. He hit a grand slam this year in Chicago, the first of his career.
OF J.D. Martinez (lower back) set to return against Padres
Manager Dave Roberts said the plan is for Martinez to come off the 10-day injured list on Friday, when the Dodgers open a three-game series against the Padres. Martinez is taking live at-bats in Arizona this week, including against pitcher Michael Grove who is also on the injured list.
Martinez went on the IL April 28 (retroactive to April 25), after sustaining the injury running out of the batter’s box in his second at-bat against the Cubs on April 23.
Two people on this site who shall remain nameless, feel like they invented James Outman. When James was called up last year and promptly got 7 hits in his first 13 at-bats, including a Grand Slam, they were quick to proclaim him the next Babe Ruth. They were eager to criticize Roberts for sitting him and Andrew Friedman was an idiot for sending him down and a double idiot for calling up Vargas over him for the playoffs.
Of course, James got off to a hot start and made the team (which I also predicted). He was the Rookie of the month in April and is still doing well. Of course, right on cue, they both think they are baseball geniuses, because they predicted great things for Outman after studying him for all of 13 At Bats. Contrary to what they believe about themselves, their own proclamations brand them the diametrical opposite of geniuses!
\They are like “that person” who goes to Las Vegas and puts a $1,000 bet down on the Blackjack table and wins $100,000.00. They think they have special intuition and we all know what happens next: they lose it all including their 1979 LTD and their trailer.
Wednesday scores
Oklahoma City 6, Round Rock 4
Tulsa 3, Springfield 0
Great Lakes 8, Lake County 1
Stockton 2, Rancho Cucamonga 1
Thursday schedule
3:35 p.m. PT: Great Lakes (TBD) at Lake County (Aaron Davenport)
5:05 p.m.: Oklahoma City (Bobby Miller/William Cuevas) at Round Rock (Cole Winn)
5:05 p.m.: Tulsa (Emmet Sheehan) vs. Springfield (Connor Lunn)
6:30 p.m.: Rancho Cucamonga (Payton Martin) vs. Stockton (Jake Garland)
All 4 Dodger Minor League Teams are in First place in their respective divisions.
Was Mike Brito the first to use the speed gun?
Thinking back I can’t remember many teams throwing speed numbers up on scoreboard.
Speed was irrelevant back in the OG days.
If you saw Ryne Duren with the Yankees you were sweating. Wild and Big Heat.
His nephew, Doug Duren the famous deer hunter/consrvationist, told a story on Meateater podcast about how Duren would deliberately let a couple fly wild & high in warmups to let batters know nothing’s gonna be easy with him. Throw in the glasses he wore and you were taking it easy stepping in agst him.
Same goes for Big Don Drysdale and Gibson.
Headhunters.
No game today and it is also raining! Drat. I saw Koufax and Big D pitch a lot. Yep, different era. You try to take the ball away from Drysdale, Gibson or one of those other guys, they would bite your head off. Doesn’t mean the game is better, I like the pitch clock because the games are not long and boring with 8 million pitching changes every time you see a pinch hitter. Doc probably should have left Thompson in because he hits RHP better than left right now. Of course right now he couldn’t hit Mark.
* I enjoyed the Brewer’s broadcast yesterday.
* CK looked great. Nice to see Vargas hit one out.
* Any comparison between the superimposed strike zone and Doug Eddings strike zone is purely coincidental. His zone is actually comical. Just do away with the superimpose strike zone on the TV. That isn’t his individual zone. He just calls strikes a ball or two, off the plate everywhere. Except for sometimes. Great pitcher’s ump and Kershaw had a field day with that zone.
* Eddings strike zone is like driving in Mexico. I ask my buddy who lives there what the speed limit was on this death road north of Puerto Vallarta to Sayulita? Goat carts share the road with Porches. He said the posted limit wasn’t really the law. It was just a strong suggestion. That’s how Edding’s strike zone in relation to the rule book.
* Dammit Barnes, get the bunt down on the safety squeeze. That’s a couple times he’s failed at that. Help your team. He did draw 2 walks but that safety squeeze is a freebie and could be useful in tight games. Especially when you’re hitting .111.
* As soon as Miley exits, Doc pulls Thompson for Peralta to see the righty. It doesn’t work!
* Chris Hook the pitching coach for the Brewers. How good is that?
I have the same picture you showed of Koufax and Drysdale with their autographs hanging in my office at home. I was lucky enough to be able to see both of them pitch. One Memorial Day double header that I attended as a young kid, Drysdale pitched the first game and the Dodgers won 2-1, the second game Koufax pitched and they won 1-0 both complete games. Your right, it was a different era.
Dalton Rushing hit two home runs in last night’s game for the High A Loons. He leads the Midwest league in HR and batting average. He is # 2 in RBI and slugging. A right handed hitter thrower and left handed batsman are a rare combination. Our better catching prospects are in AAA. I see a move for him to Tulsa AA shortly.
I can’t agree or disagree because I don’t know and it’s hard where so many things in life and times have been adverse to simple reasoning. Like sky watching tribal groups with no other tools but their eyes got so many things right about the cosmos. Galileo ground his own lenses to observe planetary motion to prove they were correct at a later date. And even with how advanced todays tools have become it’s not simple to say intelligence is advanced through time. I don’t think all past players would have difficulty playing in today’s game. When the country was saturated in the game the cream rose to the top and the best of the best was picked from a much larger playing field. And besides, I don’t let anything fog my lens of my heroes. I just don’t know the rest.
I heard Theo Epstein’s next push will be to limit the amount of pitchers teams can have on the general roster.
His goal is to make pitchers BACK into the role of protagonists.
March 28, 2022 Los Angeles Dodgers traded 1B Matt Beaty to San Diego Padres for RHP River Ryan. Another stupid move by the GM of the Padres.
True. Comparing players to those of 70-100 years ago not worthwhile. Science and conditioning has changed everything in ALL sports. Just look at any pictures from the 1950’s. Most guys in ALL sports were under 6 feet tall and kind of puny looking. Now even sprinters are doing weight work.
So we can only compare players to those they are playing against.
Totally agree Mark. The human elbow was never designed to throw 90 mph sliders! And I’m keeping an eye out for Jake Polarski who could be a hidden gem.
Enjoy the minor league content.