Believe it or not, this topic can generate some hot debate. Which players deserve the honor? And that is where the debate begins. The Yankees have by far the most retired numbers, 21. Number 8 and 42 are retired honoring two different players. 42 for Robinson and Rivera. 8 for Dickey and Berra. As we all know, 42 is retired throughout baseball.
The Dodgers have 10 retired numbers, 1,2,4,19,20,24,32,39,42 and 53. For Reese, Lasorda, Snider, Gilliam, Sutton, Alston, Koufax, Campy, Robinson, and Big D.
Usually, that is where the debate begins. Who else in Dodger history rates a retired number? All of the above save Gilliam, are in the Hall. Wheat played in an era where they did not wear numbers.
The Dodgers started wearing numbers in the 1930s. During his time with Brooklyn, Vance wore #15 for a while, then in his second stint, #21. But he only wore those numbers for one season each. So, none of his HOF accomplishments were performed over a long period of time wearing a number.
The Dodgers have had many great and near great players. The biggest Hall of Fame snub to me is Gil Hodges. Best of their era is one area that is always considered a part of the equation of a Hall of Famers credentials. Hodges was the best first baseman of his era. He was the rock of the Dodger infield.
He deserves to be in there with his teammates, Robinson and Reese. He was a very good defender and was awarded the first 3 Gold Gloves given to first baseman. He also guided the Mets to their first Championship. His death at age 47 from a heart attack was a shock to the baseball world.
Many have argued that Fernando belongs, and also Steve Garvey. I believe based on their career stats, neither makes the cut. You can throw Maury Wills and Hershiser in there too.
Fernando had one 20 win season and a single Cy Young. He led the league in strikeouts only once. But, as for his impact on the game, well, that is a given. He was a cultural phenom. He inspired a lot of Hispanic people and brought a ton of new fans to the Dodgers.
Fernandomania was an unbelievable time. He packed the fans in whenever he pitched. Stat wise though, his career numbers suffered from overuse and injury. He did throw a no-hitter and had a solid number of complete games. But few HOF pitchers end with a career record with only 20 more wins than losses. Statistically, he falls short. He may make it in someday for his contributions to the game. I do think his number is semi-retired. No player has worn #34 since he left the team.
Steve Garvey falls short simply because his stats for a first baseman while good, just do not add up to what was expected from the position at that period in time. He hit 30 or more HRs exactly once. Although he drove in 100 or more runs five times, he never led the league in that offensive category. In fact, other than leading the league in hits twice, he never led in any of the major categories at all.
He did win an MVP award in 74. And he earned 4 Gold Gloves. But his power numbers simply are not good enough to earn him a place in the hall or to justify his number being retired.
Maury Wills brought the stolen base back to baseball. He inspired many players to use their natural speed to impact games. Brock, Henderson, and Coleman took the stolen base to new heights. And Cobbs record was broken by all 4 of these players.
Maury was one of the better hitting SS’s as far as getting on base. He had no power. Although he had a 39.6 career WAR, which puts him above both Garvey and Fernando, he is not considered one of the team’s 24 best players of all time. What he did do was generate excitement. Not enough to get his number 30 retired though.
Hershiser is another borderline case. Orel finished 52 games above .500. You compare that with Drysdale, who had 209 wins and was 43 games over, you would think his 202-150 record would be enough.
They both won a Cy Young in a season they dominated. Neither ever pitched a no-hitter. Drysdale was 3-3 in his postseasons with the Dodgers, Hershiser was 4-0. Orel went to 3 All-Star games, Big D 9. But there the comparison ends.
Hershiser never led the league in the major pitching categories, K’s, ERA, He led in innings pitched twice. The biggest difference was Big D was part of 3 Championship teams. Orel was part of just 1. Granted they were different ERA’s and Drysdale was a guy who usually finished what he started. 167 complete games to Orel’s 68.
Big D’s career WAR, 67.1 is 23 points higher as a Dodger than Hershiser’s. Orel finished with a 56 WAR. He pitched for 5 seasons with other teams. Orel might make it in via the Veterans Committee. But as of now, that is not the case. So his #55 remains in service.
Discussion (10)
Disagree, not disagreeable
Pasadena police have concluded their investigation of the Bauer incident. Joc Pederson has not had a good World Series.
I asked a German friend of mine what the square root of 81 was. He said no.
I’ve been catching up on my Dodgertalk reading today. Had to share a pizza I originally thought no way. Turned out to be one of my favorites. Mustard based with pastrami and pickles. Awesome.
PS: I like pineapple, sausage & and jalapenos too! Got to be good Italian sausage though.
….”Steve Garvey falls short simply because his stats for a first baseman while good, just do not add up to what was expected from the position at that period in time.”
Maybe that is another reason Seager wants to stay at shortstop. His stats are awesome for a shortstop but third base has a higher threshold if decisions are to be stat based.
The Dodger infield of Cey. Russell, Lopes, and Garvey should have recognition on the retired number display at Dodger Stadium. Just group their numbers together to recognize the whole instead of the other retired numbers that recognize the parts.
If Rose can be eliminated from the Hall for negative character traits then Hodges should be included in the Hall for positive character traits and since the Dodgers can’t control what the Hall does, it can retire his number to recognize what Hodges meant to the Dodgers.
There are a very few players that transcend mere stats due to their impact on a team, the public, fans, and culture. Fernando was loved by all and lifted the souls of the Hispanic fans in LA. He should definitely have his number retired and I haven’t even talked about his time in the radio booth.
Name another player that revved up fans more than Maury Wills, okay maybe Game Over but for a shorter period of time. Fans want to be entertained and Wills did that as much as any player whose number has been retired. Who thinks someone who hits 500 home runs over 15 years and strikes out maybe 30% of the time created as much fun as did Wills? The stolen base was dead and Wills revived it. Others followed but he lead. Wills should have his number retired.
I’m thinking Don Newcomb should have his number retired as well.
BP we will probably never agree on Hodges and that is cool. I saw him play, and I saw Garvey play too. I liked Garv, but his numbers fall far short when you compare him to his peers and those already in the Hall. You said it is not the hall of the very good. Well, lately, that is exactly what it is.
To what extent is/should be defense be considered in HOF voting?
Zack Wheat, Fernando, Gil Hodges and Maury Wills all belong in the Dodger Hall of Fame and should have their numbers retired (although I don’t have a clue as to which number Wheat wore). Just my opinion.
Okay, I don’t pay much attention to the Hall of Fame. Great honor for the players and others who make it and I love the history of the game.
That said, it would be perfectly okay for the hall to honor Gil Hodges. Vin Scully said he deserves to be in the hall and that’s good enough for me.
So what about Steve Garvey? Again, he was the pillar of those teams, exceptional hitter. I’m okay with Garvey too. Like all awards, a lot of this stuff is subjective. Fernando was certainly a cultural phenomenon and those don’t happen all that often. Whether he should be in the hall or not is another story, but he should be acknowledged. Same thing for Orel. Maybe the Hall does that, never been there so I don’t really know. I do want to visit.
But honestly I never watch the ceremonies. I was disappointed that Mike Piazza went in as a Met. I’m still incensed that a couple of clueless Fox execs chose to trade the face of the franchise. Oh well. That’s I like about the current ownership group. They prioritize baseball, not TV deals and LA mansions. When Clayton Kershaw goes in I will probably pay a little more attention. Kershaw is just special, not only as a player, but as a human being.
As to others who should be in the Hall, I would argue Shoeless Joe Jackson should be in and no doubt Pete Rose too.
As to the steroid issue, eventually I expect some of those players to be inducted.
What I think really needs to happen is for the Dodgers to create a Hall of Fame at Dodger Stadium. If it were me, I would like to see them front the entry like old Ebbets Field, cool connection to the past. But an actual museum is what they need. They certainly have the room. Then you could honor all the various players and great moments over he years.
Two excellent stories about the Dodgers on the front of LA Times sports section this morning about the team’s free agents, covering each individual player, and a list of potential suitors along with the Dodgers. Another article covers potential free agents the Dodgers may pursue and the reasons they might be a good fit.
The Dodgers definitely want Max Scherzer back and a contract of around three years and a hundred million is the projection. It probably boils down to what Clayton Kershaw wants to do. If he wants to return, pursue another championship, a deal will be worked out.
As to Corey Seager, the Dodgers apparently tried to work out a mid-season deal, but weren’t able to get it done. No surprise with Scott Boras as his agent. The feeling is the Dodgers definitely want Seager to return, but his time at short is coming to an end. They don’t want to lose the bat and a player who came up through the system, especially entering his prime years. The issue for Seager is a history of injuries. Okay, getting hit by a pitch and breaking the wrist, is not part of that concern. But he also had hamstring issues again this year.
There is a suggestion the Dodgers may be open to trading Trea Turner if they retain Seager, but that doesn’t make much sense based on what Andrew Friedman said about Turner’s value to the team — speed, steals bases, hits for both average and power.
I think the Dodgers got it right as far as retired number go. If you don’t get in the Hall, you don’t get your number retired. It’s a total joke that the Padres retired Garvey’s number. The Angels retired Rod Carew even though everyone knows him as a Twin, similar to Garvey.
I’m okay that Jim Gilliam is the lone exception just for the extenuating circumstances surrounding his death and the love he received as a coach.
I would be okay with Fernando being the only other exception based solely on Fernandomania. That organic phenomenon was unlike anything I’ve ever seen in baseball. More of a pop-culture icon, than a HOF worthy pitcher he was a Rock Star in a ballplayer’s uniform. The people have spoken in regards to Fernando and he had an incredible run unlike any other to start his career.
Some people argue that this person or that person should be in the hall. Gil Hodges is the one you see here most often. Sure, you can make a case for him. You can say he’s better than certain others that are in the Hall and that might be true. But when you’re on the borderline, that’s the way it goes. I would rather err on the side of caution than cheapen the greatest HOF in all of sports.
There’s a few “Magic Numbers” that get you into the Hall. If you wind up reaching just one of these numbers, you’re ticket is punched with few exceptions. These numbers are…
For Pitchers
300 Wins
3000 Strikeouts
For Hitters
500 HR
1500 Runs
1500 RBI
3000 Hits
If you don’t get to one of these numbers, I don’t want to here the complaining. This brings us back to Gil Hodges as he is often compared to Tony Perez as justification for being in the Hall. Their batting averages are about the same as are their HR totals. Neither of them have much “Black” on their Baseball Reference page, meaning they never led the league in anything. The big difference is Tony is the proud owner of one of those magic numbers. He finished with 1652 RBI and that was the difference in getting your ticket punched on not. It took Tony 23 seasons to get to that number, and Hodges fell 226 short playing in just 18 seasons while missing a couple of seasons early in his career to serve our country in the military. It’s unfortunate for Hodges and his supporters, but it is what it is.
The Hall of Fame is for the greatest players, it isn’t the “Hall of Very Good”. One thing that always struck me when considering if someone belongs in the hall is this. If you have to think about it, they don’t belong. I like it this way. Rarity is what makes it special.
No knock on Hodges, he was a very good, borderline great player. But, if you say he belongs, he would have to wait for Garvey to get his place in the hall first. Garvey had more Runs and more RBI than Gil and finished with a much higher lifetime batting average. Garvey just missed 7 straight season with 200 hits as he finished 8 shy in 1977. He was an ironman on the field, a 10 time All Star and an MVP with another 2nd place finish as well. And don’t forget about his 4 Gold Gloves.
Nobody is going to forget #22 Mark. Like Koufax, he’s probably not going reach one of those magic numbers unless he can pitch a complete season over the next year or two. He’ll get in on his absolute dominance during his prime years and those three Cy Young awards is automatic for me. Then you have to consider that he was absolutely robbed by RA Dicky from getting 4 in a row and he was close to getting 5 if it weren’t for Scherzer besting him in 2017. His 10 straight years of a sub 3.00 ERA is something most of us probably will never see again and is the most impressive achievement for me. Hs baseball reference page is full of black bold faced font and he would have had a lot more if it weren’t for his back injury and his unwillingness to go under the knife to get it fixed. Nothing is going to keep him out and 22 will be hanging on the stadium wall for everyone to see. It’s just a matter of time.
Don’t forget #22.