Not Beaten – Humiliated!

I still say Roberts through this game and got paid nice to do it. There is absolutely no excuse, no reason to take out a pitcher who is throwing a three hit shut out in a elimination game while throwing only 82 pitchers at the time. Unless he was hurt, which he wasn’t, you had to win this game or those 111 wins meant absolutely nothing!! And you take him out?? Nope, I will go to my grave saying Roberts through this game and got rewarded very nice on the side while doing it!

On the last link one poster defended Bellinger citing his poor offensive performance on his shoulder recovery. I call BS, he’s had plenty of time to recover and return to form….what we now see is what he is!

FF gets $27 million AAV and leads the league in hits and is

Second in BA and you think the Dodger braintrust will pay Bellinger $20 million on a one year tendered contract for his numbers? I don’t see it. The only way Bellinger is a Dodger next year is he again signs a one year below market contract to rebuild his worth but he’s not getting tendered at what it even cost the Dodgers this year which was $17 million.

If you can’t win it all with this years payroll it’s now time to go young, go cheap (relatively speaking) and infuse some young talent. Win the NL West or be a Wild Card contender and try to get hot in the playoffs.

Guggenheim will soon hold a board meeting and ask AF to get payroll to the $200 million dollar range, get under the CBT to reset and get on with a youth movement.

I expect to see larger roles from Pepiot, Grove, Stone, Miller, Outman, Busch and a team without Bellinger, JT, perhaps CK and others who might be traded.

Mookie needs to lead and put together a complete season with elite numbers rather that a hot May and August. Actually saw him take a deep sigh of breath when he got a walk in game two. That tight when you’re supposed to be a superstar and take a noticeable exhale breath like he was relieved he got a freaking walk?

I seriously doubt TT is re-signed, Doc may not survive this debacle and I agree AF should not be immune from criticism. The roster construction was terrible and why exactly was May on the roster if he doesn’t even get a warm-up in the BP?

Gonsolin for a game three start after pitching just three big league innings after being on the IL for nearly six weeks.

In a post season microcosm the Dodgers got the bases with no outs and scored one run on a sac fly. The Padres do the same and score five runs. Horrible just really horrible baseball and someone will be made a sacrificial lamb. My initial vote is RVS at a minimum .

To be completely candid I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see Guggenheim say “fuck it blow it all up.”

This series makes me want to go back to Hawaii and sit on the beach and forget about how bad we played, how bad we looked, how embarrassing it was. Living in Reno I will have to listen to the giant fans mock the Dodgers. Hope your trip was as good as mine, welcome back. Sorry we were not able to hook up.

It’s going to be amusing watching Mr. Megaphone defend Roberts IN ITALICS after last night’s fiasco.

Ok, so I didn’t see all the at bats. But one sequence, I think second time at bat. Musgrove clearly throwing flat sliders, nothing great, but Trayce and Taylor only looking for fastballs. Both struck out. Trayce looking at a hittable slider. And Taylor way out in front of one out of the zone. With 2 strikes why would they expect to get a fastball , when they showed they couldn’t hit the off speed stuff. Doesn’t someone talk to them about this? I guess not or it doesn’t sink in–They struck out 50+% of time!!

I agree Gallo not resigned. I think decision already made- he never got chance to bat. JT looked like he was 100 years old. The two hits I saw were when somehow the pitch hit his bat and he got two bloops. I think its time to move on from Codi. Maybe a change of scene will help. And Yes a big part of failure was Mookie. Team expected him to show up. He got caught stealing by an inch on a great throw. After that I guess they gave up on that. Sure guys got some hits, and solo homers. But that’s not going to get it done when you are 1-50 with RISP. SD were not much different going into last nite. But that’s not the point

I think the playoffs may have decided a few career decisions:

Had the Dodgers mowed through the playoffs and won the WS, I think TT would have thought long and hard about staying a Dodger. Who wouldn’t want to be a key player in a “historic” baseball dynasty? It had been rumored for some time that Philly would be a good landing spot for him considering his preference for the East coast and Philly having a need and some money to spend. I think the Phil’s success and the Dodger debacle make it a near certainty, now. Trea is on Zillow looking for mansions in suburban Philly as I write this.

Early on, it looked like this would’ve been JT’s last year. He looked slower at the plate and just looked like had aged out. He then became the hottest hitter in baseball in the 2nd half. Had he been a key figure in a glorious Dodger WS win he would’ve likely signed another one year deal. Now, who knows? It would save 17 million and open a spot on the roster for Vargas at 3rd or Rios. They aren’t great defensive players – anywhere on the field. Makes me wish the Dodgers could’ve landed Arenado. He’ll be opting out, so there’s always a chance, and he’s a local boy/lifelong Dodger fan, but he’s in a good place in a great baseball town with a solid organization already, so it’s a long shot.

Who knows with Kershaw? I get the feeling he still wants to come back – even after this – but he requires constant management and work to able to stay on the field and stay effective. Even then, although he didn’t exactly get hammered in the playoffs, he didn’t carry the Dodgers, either. If I’m in his shoes I might consider retiring.

It was pretty telling that the Dodgers opted to stop even putting Bellinger in the lineup in this series. He had some really bad at bats. We have used the phrase, “he looked lost at the plate” a lot with respect to Bellinger in the past, but his at bats were so uncompetitive that even the Dodgers gave up on him. His disappearance in this series might mean a non-tender. That would be really ballsy by the Dodgers, and unlikely, I think, but the time of making excuses for Bellinger because of his shoulder are over (they were silly to begin with). He has not been an the star player the Dodgers need since the 1rst half of 2019. He’s just painful to watch and I’m over it.

The Dodgers need outfielders and there are none in the system. Andy Pages, maybe, but he took a bit of a step back this year. Vargas can’t really play good defense anywhere on the field, and outfield is not even his primary position.

I don’t think there will be significant changes to the coaching staff. Roberts is a company man. He manages a system, and he’s not bad at it. I don’t think he did anything particularly egregious in this series, either. Van Scoyoc probably isn’t going anywhere, either, although if a head rolls, it is most likely him. I’ve read several rants about the Dodgers over-reliance on the “long ball” and poor performance with RISP as reason why he needs to go. Actually, the Dodgers were exceptional this year with stringing hits together, hitting with RISP, and they were less reliant on home runs this year than in prior years in my observation. If there was a weakness, IMO, it was having to carry underperformers like CT3, Belli, Gallo, JT for a while, and Muncy for a while. Belli was the obvious weak link, and it hurt in this series.

Roberts, as a playoff manager, has his flaws. I don’t think he rises to the moment. I don’t think he reads the game well as it develops. He relies on the consensus before game strategy. He plays the averages. He’s who we’re stuck with.

The organization has done everything right. The players who needed to hit just didn’t hit when it mattered. I don’t know the reasons. I would say, however, that I don’t think a five day layoff really offers a division winner an advantage. I would argue hitters need consistent work against real pitching to maintain their timing and sharpness. That’s as good a reason as any that I can think of. I also blame Mookie’s bowling. Dude! Glad you had a perfect bowling score the other night, but we need those performances when you’re in the batter’s box.

Maybe there’s something to the bowling. I don’t think the Dodgers came in with a sense of urgency. In WWII, the ultimate loss of the Japanese has been attributed to the ease of their early success. They suffered from what was termed “victory disease.” Just as we were smug and complacent here in our comments, perhaps that 111 “historic” season went to their heads, too.

And this is playoff baseball. There is a heavy dose of small sample size luck involved, and it was a longshot that the Dodgers were going to win the WS to begin with.

The reconstructed Padres are way better than the deconstructed Dodgers. The Dodger players are nice people. The coaches are nice people. Dave Roberts is a nice person. Kumbaya is the team’s theme song and Roberts is a wonderful camp counselor. The fact they won 111 games makes me believe in pixie dust! And finally, for all his analytics, AF lets his warm and fuzzies cloud his judgement. There! I’ve vented. The healing will take a bit longer.

This will, no doubt, be analyzed for the rest of the fall and most of the winter. The Dodgers won the marathon, got blown out in the sprint. The lack of hitting just didn’t happen, it started before the season ended.

In the end, the bullpen imploded in game four. I thought they should have let Anderson go at least another inning. Tired of Analytics. Enough already.

I’m still bringing back Trea Turner, but I’m guessing the Dodgers won’t. They won’t want to pay the freight.

The reality is that Mookie Betts is a very good player, but not a great one. He’s also incredibly streaky. If he gets on a roll, Mookie can carry a team. But that’s a lot to pay a player who has lengthy bouts of inconsistency.

So what do you do with Cody Bellinger? Hard to believe this is the same player who lit up 2019. They could bring him back on a reduced contract in hopes he finds it again. Or you could pursue an alternative in center, if one is actually available.

I think Clayton Kershaw returns for one more year. I like the idea of bringing Anderson back.

Trading Chris Taylor makes sense. Too many swings and misses. Dodgers should consider trading Muncy.

I don’t care how good the defense is, a .210 hitter at short just won’t cut it. Isn’t that the problem with Cody?

Don’t see Guggenheim blowing it up. They’re making boatloads of money. They’re again raising ticket prices. They need to put another great team on the field. Expect them to again win 106 games or more.

They just won 111 games. Why would they step back? They have protected the farm system and some of those players are ready or almost ready. But they will not go young just to go young. They need to win consistently to fill the seats and grow their revenue streams.

I get the disappointment, but the playoffs are, at best, a crapshoot. A team gets hot, another chills out and everything goes off the rails. Bottom line players have to produce. Anything can happen. Why do hitters go cold? Probably a lot of reasons. If Mookie was hot, this conversation probably wouldn’t be happening. The Dodgers had plenty of scoring opportunities. They just didn’t produce.

During the season we expect there won’t be anything said of real substance. Like yes Kimbrel (Jansen) is our closer and we have confidence in him. or Belli is showing improvement or Gallo is close and is having some good swings. etc etc. That’s to be expected. But in playoffs the truth shows up. Urias got the save and Jansen was bypassed. Gallo di d doesn’t bat. Beli benched.

” The Dodgers led all of baseball in 2022 with RISP with a batting average of .272. This postseason it was .147! ”

THIS RIGHT HERE!

I’ve said this since I’ve been on this blog. If our star players do in Oct what they do April-Sept, we’d have at least 4 rings this last 10 years.

This year, we had guys prove for 6 months that they could be clutch. Yet what happens? In the EXACT SAME situations in Oct, they fold. Will Smith seemed to always be up with guys on base this series. And he was an utter failure. If he, “the best catcher in baseball” came thru even 2 times, we’d be playing tonight in a game 5.

This isn’t on Friedman, or Doc, or the coaches. They built this team and coached this team to 7 months of historical greatness. Yet come October, what changed? They didn’t coach or manage differently. The guys seem to fold under pressure. There is no pressure in April or September. There is no pressure in June vs the Pirates. So talent rises and wins out.

But in October? Choke. 2017 doesn’t count as were robbed. I’ll even give the team the benefit of the doubt in 2021. They fought till the very end and really did look gassed after beating SF in round 1. But this year? Worst choke job ever by this Dodger team. Not one person showed up with a big hit like Cronenworth did with 2 out and 2 on.

We have the most talent in baseball, but we don’t have real October performers. Maybe we do need Joc back for October.

What a buzz killer this series was. Anybody but the Padres. There will be plenty of conversation about Doc/the Wizard’s decisions. Some fair. Some not. To me we had too many players not play well. I wasn’t comfortable with our outfield group of Bellinger, Thompson, CT3 and Gallo and we see how that worked out. You could include Mookie also who hit .143 and brought none of his magic to the dance. We will see new faces in left and center next year, thankfully.

* We had multiple opportunities to increase the lead in this game and once again failed to do it. JT, Lux, Max. CT3 killed us.

* For the series, I knew Smith would be critical hitting behind Freddie and he hit .188. JT .154, Thompson .154 and Belli .143 and being basically benched.

* We hit .147 with Runners in Scoring position for 4 games.

* For the series we hit .227. If strike outs were hits we hit .333.

* Finally the bullpen couldn’t hold up. They say the problem relying on multiple bullpen pieces all the time is that eventually one or two guys don’t get the job done. And that was Kahnle and Almonte. It was inevitable as the bats slept.

* This team lacked a killer instinct. When we got a lead we didn’t put our foot on their throats and increase the lead. We sat back and allowed the Padres to gain confidence and eventually beat us.

* Lux may well be the SS next year. I’m still a big Trea Turner fan despite his defensive slump down the stretch. He is not an elite defender anyway but good enough. He still hit .333 and brings a lot of tools to the yard. But I think his asking price will not be met by the Dodgers and he moves on. His detractors won’t be sad. I will. Potential .300 hitting shortstops with elite speed and mojo, don’t grow on trees.

* Lux may make better turns at SS. He’s pitiful at 2nd. We just failed to complete double plays. His one pivot fits all, is so fundamentally flawed. Again last night he failed to complete a double play, with Martin on the mound, that would have ended the inning. A single later, with the go ahead run at the plate, Martin got Myers swinging. A tense situation that could have been disastrous because Lux can’t turn a double play. He footwork stinks and he gets nothing on the relay throw. I personally don’t see him as a good shortstop but that a conversation for another day.

* I long for the days when a pitcher was done because the hitters showed it; Not computers or a group of analysts. Data now decides how long a guy like Anderson will pitch based based on history to predict the future. It takes the human element completely out of it. Anderson was done because a computer said so and Doc danced around that question with skill in the in-game interview.

* This team will and should look a lot different next year. It will be a very interesting winter.

Yes, the Dodgers play was awful. But what was more perplexing to me was their spirit. Outside of Freddie Freeman in a few instances, nobody, and I mean nobody, was eagerly and outwardly “pulling for their teammates”. No good vibes anywhere to be found. It was like Mookie, both Turners, Muncie, CT3, et all took “I just want to be by myself pills.” And, WTH was Bueller doing on the FOX pregame show ucking it up with A-Rod, etc. instead of being at the ballpark supporting his teammates. Compare that to how the Padres played. They showed constantly that they were in the fight with their brothers in arms until the end. And that included Manny, who should have thunk it.

So its easy to find fault with management, but its up to the players to come thru. This stuff about it being too easy during the year, or Mookie bowling is BS. So last year we fought down to the wire and then people said we were worn out and should have not tried to beat the Giants. I still think the goal is to have the best team and we proved it during the year. So somehow the guys have to figure out in Oct. Sometimes one guy does it like Seager, Or the “Stunt Men’ in 1988. Freddie tried, but it wasn’t enough. Any strategy can succeed if the the guys execute. The Braves won 15 years in a row and just 1 World Series. Hopefully we don’t match that record

Not as upset as I thought I would be. It was just simply ugly to watch, as were many games during the season. I believe the 5-day layoff took some of the edge off of the offense, but they actually lost 3 in a row to a terrible Rockies team during that 6-game series. So they were primed to be beat. Lefty heavy rotation, so they started a guy who was far from being 100% in game 3 and hoped for the best. When you think about it, that was one of their better pitched games in the series since they gave up only 2 runs. You give up only 2, you should win the game. I am usually a lousy prognosticator, but I believe some of these things are going to happen. JT has played his last game as a Dodger. They are going to go for the buyout. They will give Chris Taylor 1 year to redeem his lost season. If they do not sign or trade for a SS, Gavin Lux will be the starting SS opening day unless Amaya shows a lot in spring. With some tweaks they can have a potent offense again. They cannot afford to have Muncy have a season long slump again. Max is going to have to step up his production. Bellinger gets non tendered. If I am Cody, I find the best hitting guru I can and totally revamp the way I approach hitting. If he had listened to Freeman or just simply watched how the guys approaches hitting, he could be a much better player. Not sure if Anderson will get a QO, but they will probably at least talk to him about another contract. Kimbrel, Heaney, Price, all will be gone. Kershaw will play another season, but not in Dodger blue. I think he goes home to Texas. Will Smith is still the best catcher in the game, and I give him a little leeway on his performance yesterday since it was a pretty stressful day for him with the birth of his daughter and then having to helicopter back to the stadium. Austin Barnes had 2 hits in his 3 at bats. He will be the backup again. Thompson will probably not be retained, although he would love it. Gallo is gone. I believe fan pressure on the team to dismiss Roberts and at least some of his staff is going to be very strong. But who do you get to replace him? The Rangers are talking to Bruce Bochy. One other point, same as last year, AF did very little to address the bench at the deadline. It already was pretty much a black hole. He traded for a .160 hitter with a lot of power who strikes out a ton. Hanser Alberto, although a sparkplug on the bench, was a disappointment as he did not do as well against lefty’s as he had been in his career.. Martin did a decent job, and was a nice return for McKinstry. The Padres went out and got a closer, and two solid hitters. Game, set match to Preller. Now the long winter begins, we will have some idea by the end of February what next years Dodgers will look like. Until then, fans are going to agonize over every decision the front office makes. Not me. I am just going to watch and wait.

So next season SD with Tatis, Machado, Soto, Drury, Hader–perhaps they are the team favored to win division. Pitching–We still are better.

And yeah, we will be back. This team only gets better. Bet on it.

Worst thing about this is that the Astro’s are now the World Series favorites. Yeah, there are a lot of different faces there, but if they play the Padres, I am pulling for them to sweep the Pads.

How long until the William post?

Perhaps JT gets offered the job as manager if they decide to relieve Doc of his duties. Forces JT into retirement. I like that move.

From Houston Mitchell:

–The Dodgers do a great job of building a team for the regular season. An outstanding job. They just haven’t figured out how to build a World Series champion team. There’s not a huge difference between to regular season and the postseason, but there is a difference, and the Dodgers’ push-button job of management hasn’t figured it out.

—The other disappointing thing: No passion on this team whatsoever. To be clear, I can’t read minds and don’t know what anyone is thinking, but the vibe constantly given off is one of “We can turn it on whenever we want. No worries.”

—If you are a “Star Trek” fan, we had a team full of Spocks. The Padres had a team full of Capt. Kirks. Spock will figure out the best route to get you to Disneyland, but once you get there, you want Capt. Kirk leading the way

—And you have to credit the Padres. They outplayed the Dodgers in every facet of the game. I don’t really even dislike anyone on the Padres, except Manny Machado.

—If recent history holds to form, the Padres will win the World Series now.

—But, it’s not Roberts fault the Dodgers lost. They had ample opportunities to win Games 2, 3 and 4 and couldn’t come up with what they needed in any of those games.

Bobby summed it up very succinctly:

This isn’t on Friedman, or Doc, or the coaches. They built this team and coached this team to 7 months of historical greatness. Yet come October, what changed? They didn’t coach or manage differently. The guys seem to fold under pressure.

One thing I don’t understand is that we never bunt!! In late Games 2 and 3 we had RISP with no or one out while the scores were either tied or trailed by 1. ONE RUN makes a lot of differences!! Yet, the players never attempted a single bunt and all tried big swings – and the results were zero runs!!

I blame this on DR and the hitting coaches (whoever they are).

Everything you wrote, surely influenced by the defeat, you would not have written if the bullpen had done the job, if the bullpen had done the job the team would have reached the fifth game, what you wrote is rubbish.

It’s not on Doc. He’s done what was asked of him. But something has to change. As others have pointed out, there was no fire. No urgency. No soul. As much as I’ve come to hate the Padres, this was a fantastic movie script for them. A horror movie for Dodger fans. Let’s face it. We were the arrogant villain who just got humiliated by a lesser opponent who wanted it more. The problem is that 2022 was a sequel. I said the same thing last year. Dodgers got a few new faces, won more games but the script turned out to be the same. We’re Apollo Creed. And we just got knocked the hell out by a doofus who can’t talk good.

The Dodgers can’t just lick their wounds and keep on the same plan. Some sort of major shakeup has to happen. Whatever is causing or allowing this malaise to exist has to go. There has to be a shock to the system. New blood. On the field and off.

I agree with Mark. They need to unleash the youth. Nobody can tell me the bottom of our order would be less productive with young players we have in the system than it was with Bellinger, Muncy, Taylor and Gallo. Maybe the young guys will play with some heart. They don’t have massive contracts and a ring from 2020. They might really fight for those things.

And I’ve become less interested in signing Trea. There is an awful lot to like about him. But I don’t see that killer instinct. Freeman has it. Mookie has had it. He was the spark in 2020. No idea what happened to that in 2022. Post extension Mookie isn’t the same player. And I’m not talking about stats. We’re missing a major intangible.

I’ve always been “meh” on Doc. His winning % is amazing in the regular season. Players seem to like him. He seems to work well with management. I’ve defended him when fans blame him for everything up to and including the weather. But maybe we need a guy who will get thrown out of games. Get in a players faces. Inspire some kind of fighting instinct. Our coaching staff seems to be more like mid level managers who just don’t want to “rock the boat”. Get in a players face? Nah. Just put it in a memo. We’ve become IBM. And some guys named Jobs and Gates are eating our lunch.

I hate to say this about a coaching staff that just won 111 games. But they probably need to go. All of them but Prior. And I’d like to see the Dodgers look internally.

Bellinger, gone. JT, gone. That money could go to better use elsewhere. Vargas plays everyday. Amaya gets a real shot. Add a couple bats in free agency. Build a roster less reliant on Mookie. Freeman is our centerpiece.

Blow it up.

I don’t want to watch this movie again. Not only did Rocky 3 suck. It had a very predictable ending.

A tweet from another fan, mirroring exactly my feelings today.

idk how to approach my fandom anymore. Just feels like the regular season is meaningless. Not sure why I should care when an 80something win team gets hot at the right time and topples the Dodgers every year no matter who the Dodgers add to their lineup

Thinking about cancelling my mlbtv subscription I had since it hit the market. Also will not go to ST next spring.

Frustration level never was so high as today about this new playoff debacle.

Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!