Max Scherzer – Yea or Nay?
Before I answer with my position, let me do my best to lay out some of the factors assuredly being discussed in the Dodger “war rooms”. Max Scherzer is a HOF pitcher who can still bring it at 37. He would be a front of the rotation pitcher even with the Dodgers. This year he is 7-4 with a 2.83 ERA and an exceptional WHIP of 0.886 in 105 IP.
Before I answer with my position, let me do my best to lay out some of the factors assuredly being discussed in the Dodger “war rooms”.
Max Scherzer is a HOF pitcher who can still bring it at 37. He would be a front of the rotation pitcher even with the Dodgers. This year he is 7-4 with a 2.83 ERA and an exceptional WHIP of 0.886 in 105 IP. He has 142 strikeouts against 25 walks. That is a SO/W ratio of 5.68. He has allowed 17 HRs, which is on pace to surrender more HRs in 2021 than any other season other than his CY year of 2016 when he yielded 31.
While not in the MadBum post season class, Max has been tough. In 22 games and 112.0 IP, Max has a 7-5 records with a 3.38 ERA. He has compiled 137 strikeouts vs 46 walks, and given up 12 HRs (3 to LAD). Not as scary 2.98 SO/W. Being candid, he would probably fall into the #2 slot behind Walker Buehler who has been sparkling in post season play. 11 games, 61.1 IP, 2.35 ERA with a 1-1 WL record because LAD cannot score for Walker. He has 83 K and 22 BB and has allowed 5 HRs. Walker gets the ball in a one game WC or in Game 1 of the NLDS.
There is a lot to like about getting Max for the stretch run and October. But at what cost. A rental CF, Starling Marte, cost Oakland Jesus Luzardo. Don’t look at his stats right now. He is a 23 year old who has three plus pitches with plus command and control. He has been hurt, and like Sixto Sanchez, that has to be a concern going forward. But Oakland gave up a lot as a potential Ace for the A’s to win it this year.
Farhan says he is not giving up Joey Bart for a rental. So does Andrew regarding Keibert Ruiz. Will one blink? Or will Preller swoop in and include Luis Campusano? All three front runners have a catcher that Washington would covet.
Who knows the truth when Scott Boras opens his mouth, but his latest comments indicate that he is NOT looking for an extension. Boras prefers negotiating with all 30 teams over 1. He will still ask for something. Maybe he will want to move up the $10MM deferral from 2028 to some time sooner. Maybe tax issues. Who knows, but it will not be free to waive Max’s no trade clause.
On the flip side, Max is not unbeatable. In the postseason, Max is 1-1 against LAD. In 13.0 IP he has allowed 5 runs (3.46 ERA) with 12 Ks and 3 BBs. And as previously indicated, he allowed 3 HRs in those 12 innings.
I am writing this before Wednesday’s game, but Max would not have made a difference in Julio’s start. Well I guess he could have allowed 0 runs. The 8th inning error would still have occurred, and we all know how LAD does in extra inning games. The starting pitching has not been a problem now that Gonsolin and Price are stretching out. As many on this site (and others) have said, this team is not going to win unless Mookie, Seags, and Clayton Kershaw come back healthy, and Belli turns it around. CT3 can play 2B and Lux can go to the bench for this year. I like Lux, and think he will be a star, just not this year.
Scherzer would make any rotation better. But is starting pitching really a problem? How much would Scherzer add to Buehler, Urias, Kershaw if the Dodgers can find another option (internally or externally)?
Would I include Keibert Ruiz for a rental, even one as good as Max Scherzer? No. I would include Ruiz for Luis Castillo, but the Reds do not need another catcher. They have a fine catcher (more than fine) in 24 year old Tyler Stephenson. Jose Berrios? I do not think Berrios is that big of an upgrade over what the Dodgers have to move their #1 prospect. He would be better than the current #4, but at the cost of Ruiz? And Minnesota NEEDS catching, so you know Ruiz would be a must. Byron Buxton? He just cannot stay on the field enough. LAD has enough injury concerns.
I m not opposed to trading Keibert, but not a knee-jerk reaction at the trade deadline. Take some time to see if there is another option next winter, and see how much Cartaya develops. I am sorry for all of you Austin Barnes haters, but he is a perfect backup catcher. The pitchers love to pitch to him, and he hits enough, not a lot, but enough for this supposed offensive juggernaut. As so many complain about his inability to throw out runners, although by the slimmest of margins, Barnes has a better rate at the ML level than does Ruiz at MiLB. Ruiz has still not improved his transfer from glove to hand enough to bring that CS% up. Bringing up Ruiz now would put him on the bench as a PH, and why take him away from playing every day? Hold on for a month, and he will get called up. Smith is an AS catcher (forget what the votes said). Why should he move? Can he play ML 2B or 3B? He hasn’t yet, so how do you know. Because he played some there in college? He is an exceptional athlete so he can move there as a fill in, but I am not convinced he can play enough defensively to stay there. I am amazed at the number of fans who do not value defense. As I said about Seattle, worry about 2022 in the winter.
If the cost for Scherzer is Cartaya and Beeter, make the trade. If AF needs to add another top 20-30 player, okay. Cartaya is a top 100 prospect. In 2017, I wanted Justin Verlander in the worst way. MT and I had some very “healthy” discussions on the merits of Justin Verlander, who like Scherzer had a no-trade clause. Justin wanted to come to LA, so he would have waived it as he did for Houston. Verlander with 2+ years of control brought two top 10 prospects, prospects, and one #23. The best of the bunch, Franklin Perez, who was a top 100 player, has just been a mess with arm issues, and has not pitched since 2019. He had shoulder surgery earlier this season. Daz Cameron (CF) and Jake Rogers (C) were the other two. Scherzer is older and a rental. Cartaya, Beeter, and Jackson, may be an overpay for a rental, but one I would do. Washington probably would not.
Other options: If the offense turns around with the addition of Mookie and Seags, and Kershaw comes back healthy, LAD can live with Price or Gonsolin as #4 and #5. I still like the idea of adding Wade Miley. The cost would be more than reasonable for a #5 pitcher who could be a big lefty out of the pen in the post season. Miley has a $10MM option with a $1MM buyout for 2021. He also has Scherzer type numbers for ERA and WHIP.
But with the offense floundering, I would check into the cost for Kris Bryant and Craig Kimbrel. Cubs have said they are willing to combine players.
I also love the idea of Trea Turner to LAD. Lux would have to be a part of that deal, and some top pitching (other than Gray). Would Lux, Hoese, and Beeter get it done? Lux and Cartaya? Lux, Cartaya, and Kendall Williams or Andre Jackson? I think Lux becomes an AS with Washington.
I do not like to make trades because I fear what other teams may do. That is exactly how LAD ended up with a significant contract overpay for Trevor Bauer. So if SF or SD overpay to get Max, LAD should just go out and beat him. They are more than capable, and they have done it before. There are other options other than Max Scherzer, and I would like to see AF spend some of his prospect capital for a bat. I do not want to hear there is no place to play. Just like Preller did with Adam Frazier, you make room. Find a way to play a Kris Bryant or a Bryron Buxton or a Trea Turner.
My preference #1 is Max Scherzer if it does not require Keibert Ruiz. Preference #1A – Craig Kimbrel. Preference #2 a difference making bat; Turner, Bryant, Buxton. Preference #3 – Wade Miley. Preference #3A – Ian Kennedy. Preference #4 – Josh Harrison. Preference #4A – Daniel Hudson. Preference #5 – Jonathan Schoop. Preference #5A – Raisel Iglesias. Every one of those players would be an improvement.
I would also check every box possible for Luis Castillo or German Marquez. Let Seattle trade for the Tyler Anderson’s. No to Sonny Gray, Michael Pineda, Danny Duffy, or any of the other mediocre SP being discussed.
So to answer my question above, Would I trade for Max Scherzer…a definite ——-Maybe.
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Discussion (330)
Disagree, not disagreeable
The Duffy deal is for a PTBNL. It would appear the return will be contingent on how much he pitches (if he pitches). This should not have anything to do with any of their other plans (if they have any).
Return for Duffy is said to be multiple PTBNL. That guy sure gets traded a lot. Supposedly this trade does not mean LA is not in on other arms, including Scherzer who’s trade to SD has not been confirmed yet. KC is also sending cash to the Dodgers who need money desperately.
For you Laker fans, Woj first reported that they were trading Kuzma and Harrell to Sacto for Buddy Hield.
He then reported that they were taking those same two guys, adding KCP and their first round choice from tonight and sending that to Washington for Westbrook.
I don’t see how Westbrook and LBJ exist on the same team. I’d rather do the Hield trade and keep the draft choice.
And with another 2 out run and mediocre performance once again by Gonzalez, I turned this nightmare off. Tomorrow is a new day, take 3 from the dismal D-Backs and move on. By tonight we should know if SD actually gets Scherzer, and it will be tomorrow before we know AF’s plan. And most will either hate it or love it.
As of today, I am not saying that this is going to end like this at the end of the season, the Dodgers and Giants in pitching and offense have very similar statistics, they are very even but where the Giants are better is in defense and in the players bench and that is making a difference in these four months, the Dodgers have made many mistakes that have cost them the game, also SB that later become runs scored and lose the game, the bench players have not done the work or With the bat or the glove, those are the weaknesses of the Dodgers, so far, the defense and AAAA players, there is time to correct.
I know he’s not as good as he once was, but would Patrick Corbin be an upgrade? I would think the Nats would be happy to get out from the remaining part of his deal.
Here’s what the Dodgers need:
Two elite hitters: Mookie Betts and Corey Seager.
A quality SP: Clayton Kershaw
A closer: Corey Knebel.
Three players to strengthen the bench: K. Ruiz, Joc, J. Harrison
I like the Duffy move.
Cheap, flexible good pitch mix.
Either frees up Gonsolin to be moved, or Urias to go the ‘pen (or Duffy to the ‘pen) in the playoffs.
Also, gives another starter for Urias to go on the IL with a stubbed toe or whatever.
At a pre-draft workout in 2007, Tommy Lasorda signed a baseball to him that said, “To Danny, a future Dodger.”
If all we get is Duffy and the Madres wind up with Scherzer, I’m gonna be pissed. But, I don’t think this makes them better than us and at least it keeps him away from the Giants. Pick your poison, eh?
Duffy is insurance for the rotation and has a good amount of experience in the pen and it seems that AF is intent on having a left handed multi inning reliever. I think they need a starter and a closer, but what do I know?
Maybe after watching the games since the All-Star break Andrew changed his priorities and is trying to the get a bat.
This game is crapola. Glad we won last night, because they’re really laying an egg with this one.
Duffy will fit right in on the IL. I heard they entertainment, great restaurants and the resorts are nice near the Arizona Complex. What a life!
It looks like KC is paying for most if not all of Duffy’s remaining 2021 salary. It appears that KC is just giving Duffy to the Dodgers for September. This is his second left forearm flexor strain injury this season. The first was May 14. He next pitched June 23. His next six games – 19.1 IP, .236/.329/.458/.788, 3.72 ERA and 1.40 WHIP. Average 3.0 innings per game. I guess if he is free, then why not. He is going back to KC next year.
NYY made a deal for Joey Gallo, and are now trading for Anthony Rizzo. I hate NYY. I am guessing Voit to Chicago???
Yanks close to getting Rizzo from the Cubs. AF not finished yet, and Heyman says Scherzer trade is not a done deal yet. Put this one behind you and move on. Tomorrow is going to be as Arte Johnson once said, Verrrrrrrrrrrrry interesting.
We better pray we get Bauer back because with Scherzer going to the Pads, we may not have enough quality starters to keep up with SF and SD. I believe you need 4!
Kershaw (if and when Healthy), Buehler, and Urias may not be enough.
Gonsolin and Price are iffy.
Not to mention, do we really trust Jansen to close out games? I don’t.
Disclaimer : I’m assuming out hitters will come around with Mookie and Seager returning. Maybe we could bring Ruiz up to play 1B….or try Will Smith there.
If we keep putting Price and Gonsolin out there, this will happen quite a bit. Actually, it doesn’t matter that much, because we are likely to be the Wild Card team, and we will have one game against the Padres. We might win that. Any series where we need to match up our four starters against another team’s, we will lose, as in past playoff series we have lost: I am remembering the St. Louis series where we had to pitch Nolasco in Game 4, and we lost. We do not have four reliable starters. We had Bauer, but then that fell apart. We needed to replace him, but we apparently are not going to. Duffy is not going to do it.
If the Padres get Scherzer, we will not only have to deal with him in the wildcard game, but also next season. That is the problem when there is a team in your division which apparently has unlimited resources to make major deals, and you will not very often. We did win the title last year, and we can enjoy that. The upcoming seasons do not look nearly as promising. What is the starting staff next year? Who is the closer? What is the lineup going to be? It would help if we got key players back very soon, but the lack of enough starting pitching is going to really hurt. What if Kershaw cannot pitch well? Friedman needed to do something big to save our pennant chances, and he or the owners did not choose to do it. They run the club, and make those choices.
Wasn’t able to watch the game as it was too early with work and taped it in on DVR. It lasted 2 innings before I gave up and checked the score and see we lost 5-0. Way to come out fighting today. Then I see it looks like Padres are closing in on Scherzer and we get an injured Duffy. Wow what a whirlwind!
Does anyone have the information on how they are going in games won and lost without Lux’s defense in the SS since he got injured?
Danny Duffy is having a good year but, like Kershaw has developed forearm tightness from squeezing the ball too hard. Will they both get off the DL and be able to spin the ball for the next three months? The answer to that is a clear and resounding I doubt it. If they do, using my own algae rhythms, I developed while watching women noodling in Louisiana, I have arithmetically calculated Duffy’s current 2.51 ERA in the AL will soar to over 4 in the NL West. My math says Duffy could help but isn’t the answer.
Dodger Horse @ 6:14 – makes as much sense as Duffy does.
Something else is going to happen.
Okay, a moment of honesty and reality.
It doesn’t matter who pitched today, Duffy or Scherzer, the Dodgers lose. The inability to consistently score runs is a problem. I know that’s stating the obvious. Other than the eight runs the other day, the Dodgers have only scored five runs in four games.
Once Seager and Betts return and get into gear, that should change. But I said this before, chances are that Bellinger doesn’t turn it around until 2022.
I’m sure Friedman has a move or two left beyond Duffy, who won’t be ready until later in August. But Duffy didn’t cost much so it’s a good deal and may pay off in September. My guess is Friedman is working hard to acquire a major bullpen piece, Craig Kimbrel?
Since Kimbrel has another year that would solve the Dodger closer issue next year. Again, if the Dodgers hadn’t blown two games last week against the Giants, the race would look totally different and fans would be feeling better.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Dodgers add another starter or even a hitter at this point, depending upon the deal. We’ll all know tomorrow or perhaps this evening. But Tony Gonsolin looked really good Saturday night. That’s a promising sign.
I think too many people are freaking out a day early. Less we forget that AF pulled off the Darvish trade minutes before the deadline, and few saw that coming. Few saw the Machado trade coming, as well.
One thing that does keep popping into my mind is the thought about those very trades. The only player that has produced any value for either the Rangers or the Orioles in those trades is Willie Calhoun. And not much value at that. The players the Orioles received have been wallowing in the minors for years.
AF’s success in the past is likely hurting him now. I don’t believe than any GM trusts the future value of any prospect AF offers in trade. The record is pretty clear. Which is why I think it will probably take Ruiz to get any substantial deal done. Which is something AF won’t do lightly.
All that said. Tomorrow will tell the tale. I’ll reserve any gnashing of teeth until the deadline has actually passed.
KC will get a player to be determined from an agreed upon list. Will Bauer be on it?
Whoever said above that you wouldn’t trade Belli for Scherzer and Turner, you crazy.
Turner isn’t Ozzie Smith but Seager isn’t either. Turner has speed, power and can do some OB% Max is Max and I remember him dominating LA in the playoffs a few years back until Joc got him with a late HR.
Seager is NOT a 10yr/300mil player and getting Turner lets Seager walk with no regrets. Scherzer bolsters the team THIS year and keeps him from SD. Be nice to have a power/speed threat in the lineup again.
Bellinger is doing nothing with the bat and may never again. More likely than not that he doesn’t. Again, another guy that is going to want a HUGE deal that I wouldn’t pay. I wouldn’t take him on ANY kind of long term deal. I really question his ability to get better, and long term viability health wise.
Jeff una pregunta, si los Cachorros que recibirán de Yanquis al jardinero Kevin Alcántara y al lanzador derecho Alexander Vizcaino en el trato con Chicago por Rizzo, esos retornos a estos últimos, a que jugadores de la granja de Dodgers equivalen ? Este ejercicio es para dimensionar los eventuales cambios que se pudieran dar para nosotros entre hoy y mañana, De antemano gracias.
Mariners are getting Diego Castillo from the Rays. DiPoto promised his guys he wasn’t finished and he obviously wasn’t. I guess Castillo will step into Graveman’s spot.
Angels are now in the fight for Scherzer. Maybe they’re just trying to get their fans to think they’re trying .
Terry Francona taking the rest of the year off from managing the Indians, due to health reasons. That poor man is not in good health. I know he loves the game, but maybe he just needs to retire and concentrate on his health.
This team makes it kinda hard to put a lot of faith in. Too many times they fail to answer the call even when facing pitching that really isn’t top shelf. Gotta hope Seager and Betts can light the fire. Too damn dry and it doesn’t take but a little spark to turn on the dynamics.
Duffy deal is official. In order to add him to the 40-man roster they needed to drop someone and, surprisingly, that someone is DJ Peters. I would assume they will find a trade partner rather than just releasing him outright.