Lost Arts The Bunt and the Stolen Base.
Watching the game on Sunday against the Astros, I saw Chris Taylor lay down a bunt that went for a hit. And it took me back to a time when the bunt was an offensive weapon to be reckoned with. Over the last several years, especially with the Dodgers, the only time you saw a bunt was when the pitcher came up and attempted to move the runner over. Maeda,
Watching the game on Sunday against the Astros, I saw Chris Taylor lay down a bunt that went for a hit. And it took me back to a time when the bunt was an offensive weapon to be reckoned with. Over the last several years, especially with the Dodgers, the only time you saw a bunt was when the pitcher came up and attempted to move the runner over. Maeda, and Kershaw were exceptionally good at that.
But bunting to get on base, or drive a runner in from third, well, that happened very rarely. I remember when I played, our coaches would make us make 3 bunts before we could swing the bat in batting practice. And they had to be good bunts too. Not foul balls.
And in the early years of my love of baseball, the bunt was a huge part of some players arsenal. Maury Wills, and Jr Gilliam were pretty good at it. The last Dodger I remember using it as an offensive weapon was Brett Butler. I always thought that Dee Gordon would have hit 20 points higher with that speed had he been a good bunter.
But baseball today has morphed into a game that is more about launch angle and exit velocity than finesse. Progress they call it. Seems to me they thought the same thing about cell phones. While handy, I hardly think they are progress. But that is just me. Video games and texting have taken the place of being outside in the fresh air hitting a ball.
But that is a rant for a different type of blog. Now the stolen base was also a huge weapon back then. In the early years of the game there were many prolific base stealers. Ty Cobb at that time was the best. He held the stolen base record at 96 from 1915 until Wills broke it with 104 in 1962. 47 years. Cobb ended with 897 steals. Over a 24 year career, that is an average of 48 a year. Some players do not reach that number in a season.
But prior to Cobb, there was a player named Billy Hamilton, who played for the KC Cowboys of the American Association, which in 1888 was a major league. He moved to the Phillies in 1890. Hamilton topped 100 steals 4 times. 1889, 90, 91 and 93. With a high of 111 in 1891. But he was not considered the record holder in the modern game. Hamilton ended with 914 bags over a 14 year career averaging 75 steals a year. WOW.
The top 5 are Rickey Henderson, 1406, Lou Brock, 938, Billy Hamilton, 914, Ty Cobb, 897, and Tim Raines, 808. Players who spent time with the Dodgers in the top 50 include, Max Carey, 738, not all as a Dodger, most of them with Pittsburgh, Otis Nixon, 620, Juan Pierre, 614, Maury Wills, 586, Brett Butler, 558, Davey Lopes, 557, Bill Dahlen, 548, Willie Keeler, 495, Carl Crawford, 480, Jimmy Shekard, 465. Quite a list.
As for the Dodgers all time leaders, they have 43 players who had over 100 steals in their Dodger years. Duke Snider just missed with 99. Of course Wills leads that group with 490 as a Dodger. Lopes is second with 418. Willie Davis is the only other Dodger over 300 with 335. Tom Daly, a 2B I honestly have never heard of is 4th with 298.
Steve Sax had 290, Pee Wee Reese who is # 10 had 232. Gilliam at # 12 with 203 which tied him with Zack Wheat. Best name on the list is # 18, Oyster Burns with 172, which is 2 more than Matt Kemp had as a Dodgers. Big difference is Burns only played in 820 games for Brooklyn, Matt played 1262 for the Dodgers.
The stolen base, and the bunt are two of the more exciting plays in baseball. And I for one wish they were used a lot more. I can easily remember the excitement in Dodger Stadium in 1962 when Maury was going for the record. Those go go go chants would start, and when he made it safely, the crowd would go crazy. Of course, as offensively challenged as they were in those years, the steal was an offensive weapon to be reckoned with.
As an example, Big D had gone ahead to the next city prior to his opening the series there. When told Koufax had thrown a no hitter, Drysdale, knowing how inept the hitters were asked, did he win?
I am a firm believer this skill should be taught more. The right combination of speed and knowledge of how to take better leads can be a real weapon. Speed is the one skill that cannot be taught. How to use that speed can.
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Discussion (119)
Disagree, not disagreeable
I have said it countless times. They won’t because it is not the Dodgers hitting philosophy but I would hire Brett Butler to work with Jeren Kendall. I do not care how many HRs he gets. If he can get on base from the bottom of the order and play CF, he could play at the ML level. Jeren Kendall is a ML CF, but he has to be able to get on base. Gap to gap and base hits. Jake Vogel could also use his speed by slapping and bunting. It may be a lost art, but SD might be bringing it back. I miss that part of the game.
Per Alden Gonzalez of ESPN,com,
“Dodgers pro scouts got hit with layoffs today. Not sure on the number, but it sounds like the entire department will undergo a pretty drastic change. The Athletic reported that 4-5 were let go.”
1. I too miss the stolen base but doing simple math tells us that in many cases it is not worth the risk. I do not thnk it will ever be back to what it was in the “glory days.”
2. Javy Baez – .203 BA/.239 OB% – YIKES! How his stock is falling.
3. Mookie has always taken ground balls at 2B every day. Doc wants him to start one more game there, just in case they have to pinch-hit for the 2B. With Joc leaving after this season and if Lux does not progress, there could be a scenario whereby Mookie moves to 2B. Not saying it will happen… but it could.
4. Kenley had every opportunity to blow that game last night… but didn’t. He was executing last night. I feel a little better!
5. It doe not look good for Caleb Ferguson. He will have an MRI on his elbow today and likely Joe Kelly will take his place today.
I’m all in on bunting. Especially against the shift. And who doesn’t like the stolen base? But if I had to choose one it would be the bunt. Especially now. It’s so much not a part of the game now teams don’t expect it. A hit’s a hit.
Jansen looked better but not great. He is still missing his spots, but he missed them with better spin rate.
Ferguson has been good for us. He will be missed.
Gonsolin. I believe he is a fixture now.
Bellinger. 1 for 4 and raised his average. Pollock was chasing. Smith choked up and shortened his swing with 2 strikes and stroked a line drive to centerfield. Beautiful. Take note Cody. And Taylor. Muncy. And everybody. I still say I’ll give you two strikes to try to hit in the parking lot, after that you will do it my way.
Day game. That’s good cuz I got a Covid test yesterday and am in quarantine until tomorrow. My day is planned. Hash browns in the morning, ball game in the afternoon, read “self to Shabd” in the evening. Stay out of the smoke. My brother in law just got back from Glacier National Park. It was horrible. Mostly stayed in cabin for 3+ days. Awful everywhere out west. Be safe everyone.
Very nice write-up, Bear. You hit the spot with me regarding bunts and stolen bases. Yes, home runs are exciting, but a stolen base to put yourself in scoring position or a bunt to advance a runner is too. And, the suicide squeeze that sometimes takes your breath away, is the ultimate surprise play.
I know, unfortunately, it is not part of the game today and is a lost art, but one of the reasons I like baseball so much is the strategy involved in making the plays. l feel a sense of relief when a stolen base practically eliminates the double play.
So would like to see the bunt and stolen bases used more in today’s game. Hey, Taylor used it against the shift last night and the Padres utilized it too in one inning.
So I actually think the bunt IS exciting! It’s a hell of a lot more exciting than a strike out or a pop up. The bunt forces multiple players to react quickly, requires speed, which is exciting, and sometimes results in a great play by a 3b, which is exciting.
And now with the shift, I think it’s absolutely idiotic for our left handers who are hitting .200 to NOT lay down a bunt down the 3b line. Your job is to get on base. I guarantee that will raise your OPS more than a weak ground ball to 3 guys on the right side of the infield.
May Day today. Looking forward to him match what Gonsolin gave us yesterday.
With all the shifts where the third baseman is closer to shortstop than third, it would make some sense for the left hand hitters to take advantage, dropping down a bunt, pretty much an automatic hit.
Does anybody remember the pop up slide, sometimes called the stand up slide. It’s known to be the quickest path to the bag. At a clinic when I was in Pony League we had a college coach teach us that and I used it the rest of my career. Get immediately to the base with a hard slide, spikes right to the bag and stand straight up on it quickly, ready to take off to the next base in the event of an overthrow. You see this slide in a lot of the old films. Willie Mays did it as well as anyone. The subtleties that I was taught that day also involved sending a message to the fielder who may be standing on that bag. The message was “this is my bag, get the ef off it”. This was done with the entire body, emphasis on elbows and I could land shoulders and a couple times even a subtle head butt. All done perfectly legal and process of the slide. I had a reputation. Fielders knew to take the throw off the baseline. Smith got tagged out because his foot slid over the bag. Huge mistake that killed a rally. If it’s me I hit that bag at full speed with a pop up that just might leave a bruise on Machado who was standing right over my bag. Ty Cobb would have come in with spikes up. Spikes filed knife sharp before the game. I wouldn’t advocate that, but in my game there is no over sliding the bag. Feet first stand up. It’s the quickest path to the bag. Why wouldn’t players use it? Just food for thought.
I thought Gonsolin did a great job last night. He proved he deserved to be in the starting rotation by leaps and bounds. Congrats to Turner for his fine batting performance and Kenley, even though you made my hair turn a little grayer and my nails a little shorter, you came through at the end.
Worried to death about Ferguson though. He has been so so good and would hate to lose him this year. Anybody know how he is?
In last night’s game, there were two successful bunt base hits,, and a sacrifice. Taylor got a hit on a bunt that was not in the best location, but Davies could not handle it cleanly. SD laid down 2 in the same inning. One getting by Gonsolin for a hit. I love that kind of baseball. And I love the surprise of the suicide squeeze, which is rarely used these days. But if executed correctly, it is almost impossible to defend. Jansen got out of it, but he still damn near gave me a heart attack!. I really like Smith. The kid plays hard and uses his head up there. Hope Fergie is ok. Orel seemed to think it was something in his lower body. but the report says his elbow. That cannot be a good sign. The kid has worked hard and been a great piece out of the pen. Cody has moved off of the plate a little. And it looked like he was getting around on the inside pitches better. The Umps strike zone was all over the place. And I think Pollock got really frustrated with it because there were at least 3 really bad calls on pitches to him. But they won, and that is the main thing. Yanks scored 20 last night hitting 6 homers. Voit now has 18 to lead the majors. And the Brewers laid an 18 spot on the Cardinals.
Padres are starting a lefty named Adrian Morejon this afternoon. 2-0 with a 2.53 ERA. Has started 2 games and went 5 both times 14 K’s in his 10 innings. Pitchers that they have never seen always seem to give LA fits. Lets hope that is not the case today.
SD got two men on base in a row by bunting, and we got one. That is a good argument for the value of the surprise bunt, as long as players can execute it. I can’t say that I was ever a big fan of 1980’s “small ball,” but playing for homeruns gets tiresome, and a mixture would be fun to watch.
The almost certain loss of Ferguson for the rest of the year took some of the gratification away from the crucial win. Ferguson had mostly pitched very well this year, and I had though at times that perhaps he would make our best closer. Now we are stuck with Jansen,,as they can’t pitch him in any other spot,because he is not mentally adapted to it, so they couldn’t really use him at all if he were not the closer; and we don’t have enough quality relievers to get through the grind of the playoffs, unless we use him. i really don’t know how we are going to replace Ferguson in a bullpen sequence, but we are going to have to. I am not looking forward to seeing Kelly again, but maybe he somehow will regain his form of 2018. Can you imagine Kelly and Jansen both being used to protect a one-run lead? We really now only have one good reliever from the left side, and that is Kolarek, who rarely faces more than three batters. Well, maybe our starters can start going seven innings or more, like last night, because if we get those five innings starts, our bullpen is going to really have problems as the playoffs progress. Injuries are part of the game, it always is said, but this one was particularly unfortunate, and of course we feel really bad for Ferguson, who knew right away that he could not throw another pitch.
Great article Bear! I used to love watching a well executed drag bunt. That definitely seems to be a lost art in today’s game. It appears to that the change in philosophy regarding the bunt and stolen base, might also stem from the fact that many of the modern player simply don’t seem to know how to execute a proper bunt or know how to get a lead and jump for the steal. Watching some pitchers try to sacrifice is very painful in their lack of ability to lay down a proper bunt.
Thanks for the reminder of the pop-up slide Badger. That was something we had to master when I played. We would spend hours of practicing in the “sliding pit” to learn how to properly do it. Other than the “strawberries” you would regularly get on the back of your thigh and buttocks, I don’t remember any player getting a serious injury as a result of sliding.
William, you say we only have one good reliever from the left side if we don’t have Ferguson, but both McGee and Victor Gonzalez have pitched very well. Not that Fergie won’t be missed. Does anyone know if he’s had a TJ surgery in his past?
The fact that most of us are so enamored with the bunt just proves one thing………………….we’re all old! 🙂
If teams like the Pads use it successfully on a regular basis, the whole league will start copying them. We can only hope.
Conflicting stories: Alana saying May will start. David Vasseigh saying May scratched, and Graterol will start
Thanks Boys. We needed that last night. Some good comments today and a good post by Bear on use of the bunt and steal. I grew up with a dad who was a top-notch fastpitch pitcher. In that game, with dominate pitching, if you couldn’t bunt, you didn’t play. If someone got on it was automatic they got sacrificed to second.
Bunting takes quality practice and commitment. Commitment is the operative word here. Without it there is poor practice. Then poor execution. A Player’s hears has to be in it. Chicks don’t dig the bunt.
My teams made great use of the bunt as a weapon. We also set up a “bunting station” and made it competitive with a coach there supervising. A pitching machine was cranked up (no lob ball half ass practice) and things were taken seriously. Proper mechanics on how to bunt were taught and expected. Players now honestly don’t know how to bunt. I would frequently have a kid bunt with 2 strikes if their previous 2 bunt attempts were unsuccessful. I wouldn’t reward poor execution and let them swing away.
I have never understood how a hitter passes up a sure base hit against a shift, when baserunners are needed, when a bunt or slap it right there. I’m slowly seeing it a little more, like last night. I would eventually like to see it until teams stop shifting so much but I now doubt that will happen in my tenure.
Bear I’m more of a proponent of the “safety squeeze” versus the “suicide”. That play can’t be defended either if done right. And it’s by definition, safer. And I’d never hit and run anymore. Always a “run and hit” taking my chances running on a “ball” outside the zone making the catcher’s throw more difficult and runner stealing.
Badger, I too loved to “pop up” slide and was great at it. It did cost me several levels of skin on my knee. One of the reasons it’s taught less, like a “take-out slide” is because if used during a double play, it’s illegal. If the runner pops up into a fielder while he’s making the turn, both runners are out. So, it’s not taught much too youngsters. Another skill that’s gone away.
Some thoughts on last night:
* No kidding that Quinn Walcott was horrible behind the dish. You could roll it up there and get a strike.
* Awesome to see JT back. Let’s keep him at DH and Rios (by default) at 3rd. No Muncy please at 3rd.
* I wish Fergie well. Didn’t look good.
* Glad KJ got it done. Sadly my trust was not enhanced. He was 1 pitch away from a tie game or worse. I’m still lobbying for closer by committee.
* Joe Davis made a statement during the broadcast last night that I hope was inaccurate or a misquote. He said that “Doc thinks that the series starting next week with 3 games with the A’s and 3 with the Angels as the time to “ramp up” to get the best guys ready for the post season.” I hope he didn’t really say that and doesn’t think that. Why not start that yesterday (I liked that line up a lot with the exception of Joc). Play your best guys every game, STARTING NOW. No more try -outs. No more Mookie at 2nd. No more platooning with Pollock and Joc. No more Lux at 2nd. Put CT3 there and leave him. These games and Colorado matter! Don’t turn on the switch with 6 games left, please.
* Speaking of Joe Davis, I would bet that he never played anything at a competitive level. Last night he was verbally moping around and whining that KJ must be feeling terrible about loading the bases. Oh woe is us. Suck it up in the booth too and talk about competing and getting out of the jam instead whimpering about it. Grow a pair.
* A win today would be awesome. Every win is big one from here on.
Matt Harvey looks done. He was placed on the IL today by the Royals. In 11 plus innings he gave up 15 runs. His fast ball average was up a little, but his control was way off. Manfred says the DH is most likely here to stay. Opposition in the NL has softened considerable. He also wants to keep the expanded playoff format beyond 2020. Another thing he thinks might be kept is the new extra innings rule, which I detest, but seem to be in the minority. He doubts the 7 inning double header will be kept though. And he is hoping that sometime down the road that MLB can expand to 32 teams, allowing and even number of teams in each league. Thus making scheduling easier.
Roberts says Graterol will start but May will get some innings today. I can’t follow that logic but it wouldn’t be the first time Doc did something I couldn’t understand.
McKinstry will be joining the team today although no official move has been made yet. If he can get some at bats in during the next week and does well, I could see him replacing Lux or even Joc on the playoff roster.
I do find it interesting that it’s ZacMac and not Beaty but that’s probably because they aren’t convinced they want Lux on the post season roster and Beaty doesn’t play second base.
Why May was taken out of mlb app to pitch today?
Oki
Buehler is not with the team. He is not traveling to Colorado either. He has been pitching with a cover on his finger, and will stay in LA until the team gets home. Roberts said he will get a start prior to the end of the year.
todays line up.
1 Betts RF
2 Seager SS
3.Turner DH
4. Muncy 3B worst fears realized
5. Smith C
6. Bellinger 1B
7. Pollock CF
8, Taylor LF
9. Lux 2B
P Graterol..opener.
Why Muncy 4? Why Lux y not Like? Bad line up
Robert’s shenaniganology
Ferguson on IL; Sborz called back up.
Joc on Family Emergency list; McKinstry called up.