Do you remember when many Dodger fans wanted to trade Gavin Lux, Keibert Ruiz, and the kitchen sink for Francisco Lindor who was allegedly the second coming? Remember how many were heartbroken when he was traded to the Mets who signed him to a $341 Million Dollar Deal? Remember when most fans wanted Lindor, Trevor Story, Carlos Correa, or Javier Baez instead of Corey Seager?
Well, of those five (soon to be free agent) shortstops, let’s look at their stats:
- Javier Baez – .241 BA/.757 OPS/24 HR/68 RBI Baez is a train wreck. I want to see what Fool GM gives him more than $80 Million.
- Carlos Correa – .269 BA/.839 OPS/18 HR/60 RBI Carlos is doing OK, but his history of back injuries has to give anyone pause.
- Francisco Lindor – .228 BA/.702 OPS/11 HR/36 RBI I’ll bet Steve Cohen has learned his lesson. This is potentiall a huge boat anchor contract.
- Trevor Story – .254 BA/.785 OPS/15 HR/54 RBI Certainly not the superstar that many thought. You have to dedcet a little from his offense for the Mile-High Factor
- Corey Seager – .276 BA/.799 OPS/5 HR/25 RBI Of course, he has been injured most of thr season. The final chapter is yet to be written… and is true with all five players.
Francisco Lindor’s inability to even be an average player started the domino effect to all the other shortstops. That contract looks like a boat anchor. I think because of that, most GMs will be very wary of giving out big contracts to these players. Some Dodger fans pined for Javy Baez. How do you like him now? No thank you! Corey Seager is heating up and getting his strike back. I predict that he will hit over .300… of course, he doesn’t have enough at-bats to qualify for anything. With a hot finish, Corey Seager will be the cream of the crop of Free Agent Shortstops, but what does that mean for the Dodgers?
We know that Trea Turner changes the whole Dodger Dynamic. However, I would not want to choose one player over the other… and I don’t think you have to. A sit-down after the season with both players could be productive. I can see both players wanting to test free agency. People who say “The Dodgers should lock up Seager (or Turner) now.” are not being realistic and lack understanding of how the free-agent process works. Trea Turner becomes a Free Agent in 2023 while Corey Seager is one after this season.
There are not that many teams that can afford either player, but right now our focus is on Corey. The Yankees can afford him, but will they? We know that was his childhood team, but does he still want to play there? Will the Yankees be a player for him? We don’t know. Corey will be 28 next season. I think he can play shortstop into his 30’s and slide over to 3B or 1B at that time. We know that he missed nearly a full season with elbow and hip surgery and recently missed months with a broken finger/hand. I do not think that makes him “injury prone.” Getting hit with a pitch is not proof of that.
Of course, Trea Turner also plays SS, and 2B and CF. He can be outstanding at any of these positions, but there is one thing to worry about with Trea Turner. We know his speed is elite, but we also know he is a year older than Corey. You don’t get faster as you get older. We also know that Trea has missed substantial time with injuries. As he ages, his speed will become less of a factor. The bottom line is I think Corey will get a bigger contract than Trea, but that is why players go to free agency to see what they can get.
If forced to sign one or the other, I would sign Corey Seager to an 8 year/$240 Million Dollar deal. That’s a big contract, but I do not believe any of the shortstops on the market this year will get anything approaching with Lindor did. Cody Bellinger is also showing signs of getting his stroke back, so the Dodgers will have to figure out how to sign him too.
Currently, Mookie Betts is likely headed back to the IL and I wonder how much of a factor he can be. He obviously needs surgery, but for what and how? We don’t know. I think the Dodgers do but aren’t saying. Justin Turner’s groin injury could also require an IL stint. Sometimes those take a while. CT3 can play there, but Max Muncy is a better option because of his experience.
Danny Duffy, Victor Gonzalez, and Clayton Kershaw are also on the IL and probably won’t be back until September, whenever. The Good News is that Alex Vesia and Corey Knebel look healthy and effective out of the pen. Corey was 97-98 MPH consistently last night. This has been a trying season for the Dodgers and they will be tried even more, but even Mookie and JT out, the firepower brought by Turner, Seager, Muncy, Bellinger, and Taylor should be sufficient. It would be nice to win the division (and I still think the Dodgers will), but that is not the only path to success.
Regardless of the injuries, this team will be tough in the playoffs… they just have to get there first. However, anyone who thinks this team does not have depth is seriously mistaken.
Minor League News
- Gavin Lux played 3B at OKC and was 2-4 last night. He’s playing 3B, in case JT is down for any period of time. Gavin has not been the superstar (yet) that many wanted, but he is a solid player.. who may becaome THAT guy.
- Miguel Vargas continues to hit at Tulsa. He balsted his 10th HR last night and was 2-4 (.294 BA/.877 OPS)
Photo Credit: Alex Gallardo / Associated Press
Discussion (34)
Disagree, not disagreeable
Bullpen game tomorrow. Wonder if they will call up White to make the start. Bazooka looked great tonight. First time I have seen him go two innings. Suarez starting for the Phillies. Mets have to play a doubleheader tomorrow. Mookie left for LA to be checked out. Reddick signs a deal with the Mets.
Belli’s 13 pitch at bat against Gibson was impressive. He did have trouble catching up to the high fastball again, but over all, Belli seems to be coming alive. 8 game hitting streak, 4 HR’s in his last 4 games. 4 RBI’s tonight. With Betts down, they need that bat. Bullpen, you watching Eric? Perfect again.
3Ks, 2 Bombs. This season is as crazy as Belli’s hitting.
Is 6 runs enough for Ucenta to mop up?
6-2 now. Bullpen unscored on so far again. Taylor not having a good night at the dish. Bellinger hits another, 2 HR’s, 4 RBI’s. Cody is coming back.
As I recall it, the sticking point on Lindor was Lux. Was Ruiz part of that proposed package? I don’t recall that being actually reported, and perhaps we’ll never know what offer was on the table. I’m sure there were a lot of moving parts.
But who now wouldn’t have given up Lux in a deal for Lindor, a multiple All Star with several gold gloves. If you checked his career stats at that juncture, Lindor was on a HOF trajectory. His recent struggles are not indicative of the player he has proven himself to be–while Lux’s struggles (especially against lefthanded pitching) may well reveal his limitations. Besides, the argument for Lindor over Seager was always, primarily, about the glove–because we’ve always known that Seager is a mediocre fielder at best. Getting Lindor would have forced Seager to move to either 3B or 1B–and the Dodgers would have won more games as a result. Plus, Lindor would have replaced Joc at the top of the order–and that would have won same games too.
The only reason I’m OK with that deal falling through is that AF then turned his attention to Mookie, who in addition to being an major offensive force is a Gold Glover. Very happy that worked out.
Listening to today’s game, I heard Rick Monday bemoan how the Dodgers messed up a routine double play–and that led to runs for the Phillies. Now, I didn’t see the play–I don’t who flubbed it–but it reflects how games often turn on defense. And these mistakes don’t necessarily get recorded as errors or measured in conventional statistics.
As I mentioned in a previous conversation, one reason the Giants are four games up on the Dodgers is that Brandon Crawford can make plays that Seager/Lux/Taylor can’t. Crawford was winning Gold Gloves in the NL Gold Gloves when Lindor was getting that hardware in the AL. We like to think that Seager is clearly superior to Crawford–but check out Crawford’s hitting stats and you may be surprised.
Should Trea Turner take over SS? Probably not yet. It would be disruptive and moving Seager to third or first would create problems as well.
I love fielding highlights. All those “web gems.” My baseball crazed son and I look them up on Youtube. And it’s really pretty rare to see any Dodger except Mookie or Belli make these plays. (Justin just had a great one–and he strained his groin.)
OK, Dodgers are now up 5-2 in the 7th as I write this….. But if Monday is right, it should be 5-0
.
I know what’s going on with our starting pitching but I just don’t like David Price. He had a 778 OPS coming into the game and I bet it goes up after this game.
Nothing is quite like the joy you feel when a pitcher hits a gapper with an RBI to boot!
Belli’s last 7 games…. .318/.375/.818. I guess the problem of CT3 needing to take his spot fixed itself.
Maybe Lux will come back from the IL fixed.
Stranger things have happened. Seager just dove for a ball.
Bellinger saved some ass again, with the glove this time.
Hoping the gods are having pity on us
Knock on wood.
Or maybe they think we’ve been spanked enough , again knock on wood
What an at bat for Bellinger
That was epic
Such a beautiful thing we’ve all been praying for
And down it comes. Seager made a great play at short and threw out a speedy runner. Leave him where he is. I despise the weather in Pennsylvania. I remember many times being in storms that came out of nowhere and lasted a couple of hours totally disrupting traffic and my schedule. Build a dome! Turner leading the NL in hitting…for now anyway.
Smart move by Philly Mgr to not pitch his best pitcher and waste him for 2 innings only like what will happen to us. I doubt Price comes back out so say bye bye to him…..see you in 5 days.
He learned something from last night.
Too bad Doc didn’t. So now we will have two bullpen games assuming we resume and finish this game.
Rain forecast to start in 30-45 min from this post. Forecast to go for 90-120 minutes.
cheers
Despite the Baseball Gods making it tough, we still have a very talented team on the field even with Mookie, JT, CK all limited or done.
* I love the Hammer kid’s look. He does look like a Hansen Brother without the broken lenses. These are definitely BCG’s.
* Despite the win and giving up zero, we left the bags juiced in the 7th and 8th. In the 8th we spent too much time bitching at the ump about balls and strikes we forgot to swing. (his calls were accurate, by the way) A lot of pressure is put on our guy up with 2 outs because with none or one out, guys don’t have productive at bats. Muncy being an example. He failed to do the job when the game was still in doubt and then homered when it wasn’t. It didn’t matter last night but when we have lulls, this is why.
* Is anybody still in favor of platooning with Pollock? Damn, what do folks need him to do? Some fans have just never warmed up to the guy. especially Bum, who would prefer Joc over anybody. Pollock is healthy, playing good D and is hitting .309 / .895. His splits are .305 vs righties and .316 vs lefties. And a few want to platoon him. What’s this guy need to do to get a little respect (Rodney)
* Same with Seager. I remain a fan which doesn’t mean I don’t like TT. Too many folks here want him at 3rd or 1st or elsewhere. He is not a defensive wizard but he makes routine plays and hits. Tough crowd here.
* There is certainly a lot to talk and speculation right now about what the Dodgers should do next year and in the future. That’s fine stuff for useless conversations. The Lindor, Joc, K-Bear, Jo-Jo ships have sailed. Nobody has a clue about TT, JT, CK, KJ Kelly, or Seager. How will it work for Max and TT with Bellinger needing a major improvement in 2022.
* So while this is a semi-interesting and totally speculative conversation for suitable for the winter and nest spring, what I’m focused on is winning baseball games NOW. It’s not panic; it’s urgency.
* I’m not into Orel’s conversations about pitch counts and saving the bullpen one day to have a guy available for the next day. He wanted Vesia, who was dealing, out last night before 18 pitches so he’d be available today. Like at 18 pitches he needs a day’s rest. I’m extending guys within reason and circumstances to WIN ONE GAME AT A TIME. Win this one and worry about tomorrow’s game, tomorrow. I know we have 13 road games coming up and it would be swell to not overtax anybody. At same time we need to win baseball games and not coddle arms that should be more then capable at this point to go that extra inning. If we don’t, there will lots of rest time in about 1 1/2 months.
Betts placed on the 10 IL and he is returning to LA to be examined. Uceta activated.. oh no, I cannot take much more of that guy. Losing Betts means that they will have a 3 man bench with Turner ailing. What in the blue blazes is the front office thinking??
I can think of quite a few reasons why Roberts should be elusive about player injuries and I think others can as well if they think about it.
Today’s keep the winning streak going lineup
T Turner
Muncy
Smith
Seager
Taylor 3B
Bellinger
Pollock
Beaty RF
Price
Considering JT and Betts are banged up, I like these 8 guys. I’m glad Beaty is in there instead of McKinney.
Another thing, this is all premature if they do not reach a quick agreement on a new CBA. Unlikely. It will throw the entire free agent class a huge curve. This is going to be a contentious negotiation. NL getting the DH will be on the table as will some other rule changes.
I doubt the Giants will be in the market for a SS because they will resign Crawford. At least that will be their first priority.
Seager or T Turner? I say keep both of them. The 2B position has been a hole for awhile now. The powers that be should sit down with Trea Turner and convince him to play at 2B to finally solve that problem/hole.
I would definitely let Kenley Jansen leave. So there is that big contract gone. I would let Joe Kelly and his contract leave too. I would only sign Kershaw at a reasonable price.
A little early to be arguing about this. Only time will tell which direction ownership takes. When it comes to talking about injuries, Dave toes the company line and does no give much info unless they say go ahead. The Red Sox, who are in the midst of a huge flame out, are considering a lot of changes in the next few days. They have already shaken up their rotation with the expected return of Sale this weekend, but there are rumors that they are going to cut underachieving Marwin Gonzalez. I have never seen so many players on injured lists in the 60 plus years I have been watching this game. Something is definitely wrong with either the training regimen or the way players work out. The Dodgers have 16 players on the IL. Four of them out for the year, Rios, May, Kahnle and Ferguson. Including those four, four other players are on the 60 day IL. Kershaw, Duffy, Sherfy, and Nelson, who also is most likely gone for the year. Lux is the only player on the 10 day who is currently playing anywhere. How this all gets handled is going to have a huge affect these last 49 games.
I would sign Seager to play 3B, if he does not agree bye, bye, he should not play SS instead of TT, always the decision must be the team first and what is best for the team is the defense of TT In the SS, even in today’s game because of J Turner’s absence, Seager should be in 3B, TT SS and CT3 2B, that’s the best defensive infield the team can put in right now.
Signing Seager long-term makes sense because he’s a special hitter but as long as it’s 3B, in the future he can play 1B and DH to keep getting his offense, like I said before, if he doesn’t agree bye, bye, thanks for the memories.
Line Up 2022:
SS TT
3B Seager
RF Betts
CF Bellinger
DH Turner
1B Muncy
LF Pollock
C Smith
2B Lux
I think it’s going to be musical chairs when it comes to the FA SS market this offseason. I know Boras likes to wait out the offseason and have the market come to him. But, that may not work this time around. How many teams that need a SS have the money to spend on a long term $250M+ contract ? The Dodgers, Yankees, and Giants. So, with Seager, Story, Correa, Baez, Semien, Crawford, and others available and a limited amount of teams with the money to spend it should be fast and furious right from the get go. Those players who wait for a better deal might be standing without a chair.
As to Trea vs Corey? I’d take Trea for the excitement level he brings to the game. Like Mookie when he is healthy. Or Cody when he is able to make consistent contact. Must see players both on offense, but defense as well. Corey is an excellent hitter and can carry a team, but average defense and availability has been an issue. It’s going to be interesting and a tough call for AF.
Lets be honest. Watch the video. She made the guy slow down, but barely laid a hand on him!!!
To me the question is whether we want Trae Turner or Cody Bellinger longterm. With an aging Justin Turner destined to become a full time DH when/if the NL adopts the DH, who better to take over the hot corner than Corey Seager? I know Seager sees himself as a shortstop, but so did Manny Machado.
Machado was insentavised to make a permanent move to third base. I like Cody Bellinger but I don’t like him as much as Corey Seager or Trae Turner. The Dodgers would be better served building around Trae Turner, Corey Seager and Mookie Betts.
I want to enjoy Betts, Lux, Trea, Seager, Bellinger, and Smith playing together on the Dodgers for years.
As Trea gets older he will still be fast just not as fast.
Corey or Trea?
Okay, we should walk through this. But first let me point out that I never thought going after Lindor made any sense. I’ve always liked Corey Seager. We drafted him and he came up through the system, excellent clutch hitter with power, pretty good defensive skills. Definitely need to re-sign him, no maybe about it.
Just to point out I was for signing AJ Pollock, always liked his bat and skill set. Said so many times. I’m definitely not trading him. Where would be this season without his bat? The Dodgers also hold an option for 2023. Believe the trade for Max Scherzer and Trea Turner was worth the price. Okay, I thought the Dodgers should sign Bauer. Oh well.
But I’m not looking at a Corey or Trea scenario. If I’m the Dodgers, I try to keep them both. I’m going for the super team and I’m looking at the next five years. All the Dodgers need is health.
The Dodgers have money coming off the books and Bauer will be off the payroll one way or the other.
I don’t buy the loss of speed argument in Turner’s case, he’s built for speed and in the five to seven year window, I think the speed plays up. He’s a difference maker and he adds a dimension few teams in baseball have.
Corey adds the big time clutch bat, the MVP quality play. No way I let him walk. He likes LA, likes the organization and wants to play for a consistent winner. Yah, Scott Boras will be a pain in the ass, but in the end Seager should remain a Dodger. I seriously doubt a $300 million contract is in play, although many experts believe that is what Seager will get. I won’t be surprised to see the Giants become the Dodgers number one competitor for Seager’s services.
Who knows what the Yankees will do? Rumors indicate the team may be up for sale. Just can’t see Artie Moreno investing in another hitter, although the Angels could certainly be a player for Seager. The Angels and the Giants, even more incentive for the Dodgers to keep Seager.
Not sure what everybody thinks about Clayton Kershaw, but, if he’s healthy, I can’t see the Dodgers walking away. He simply means too much to LA and the Dodgers. Not all decisions can be made through a black and white landscape.
No question Kenley is gone, unless he comes back for far less money. Maybe the Giants snag him.
I have no idea what’s wrong with Mookie’s hip, a pointer or something else. I’m sure that something will be announced at the end of year. Surgery or rehab or rest. It’s not Dave Roberts job to make sure the fans know exactly what is wrong with players. It may leak out or a player may say something, but often these things are kept quiet. Mookie seems to be a very private person. Even his own assessments have proven incorrect.
Another thing I would do is keep Scherzer, maybe a two year deal. He wants to be here. Same with Kershaw.
The Dodgers don’t have to settle, they can go for the super team, make history, open up new lines of revenue.
Corey Seager and Trea Turner are both all star baseball players and the Dodgers should try to keep both of them. Unfortunately, Corey Seager has selected Scott Boras as his agent, and that will make it very difficult to retain Corey.
While Trea is 10 months older than Corey, their career stats in MLB are remarkably similar.
Seager:
At bats – 2,247
Average- .294
OPS – .857
HR – 93
SB – 12
Turner:
At Bats – 2,568
Average – .300
OPS – .842
HR – 93
SB -193
In my opinion, Corey is a slightly better hitter, and Trea is a slightly better all around baseball player. I would rather have either Trea or Corey above Lindor who has a career average of .280 and career OPS of .821.
Also, The Lindor contract paid him a $22 million salary this year plus an upfront bonus of $21 million. His AAV will be $34 million for the next 10 years starting in 2022.
Hopefully, the Dodgers can find a way to keep Seager, but Boras will likely create a bidding war and find a team to overpay Corey. And in the long run, most huge contracts do not workout for the teams.
This year, 14 players have a base salary of $30 million or above. Only three of those players have WAR above 3: Cole, DeGrom, and Machado. And 5 of the 14 have a WAR below 0.5.
Even Reliable stars like Mookie Betts and Mike Trout are susceptible to injury.
And one other consideration is that the MLB Labor Agreement expires at the end of the year which could impact all free agents.
I’ve said this many times before, but I hope we resign Seager and I hope next year we can extend my new favorite player, Trea Turner. I hope he finds the West Coast to not be so bad that he just has to live in the East. If he absolutely has to move back East, I hope the Atlanta Braves can sign him, seeing that I live in the Big A.
Other tidbits I’d like to express:
1. VESIA….he now has my attention. Way to go young man.
2. The bullpen….all of a sudden with Knebel back, VESIA pitching nicely, Bickford being consistent, Kelly becoming beastly again, Trienen being Trienen (reliable), this Bruihl kid looking impressive, albeit too small of a sample size….now all we have to do is hold our breath when Graterol and Jansen come in. (I omitted Greene and Quack because I do not believe either will be around much.)
3. I’m 100% okay with McKinney playing over Beaty. Beaty may be a bit better with the stick but McKinney is better with the glove, so it’s kind of a wash.
4. Glad to hear Lux is working out at 3B. If Turner has to miss some time, it’s nice to have the option of at least playing Lux against RHP.
5. Our depth….anyone concerned about the lack of our positional depth? Other than CT3, we seem to have no one that reliable who can come in and start every day in the OF or 3B.
6. As much as I hate to say this, if we can only try to sign one, I would try for Scherzer over Clayton for obvious reasons. But, I feel dirty saying that.
That’s it for now. Great win last night, we needed it to not drop back anymore. It pains me to watch Dbacks highlights…that Christian Walker kid who plays 1B gave them the game just like that Brewers RF who misplayed the final out a week ago. The friggin Giants do seem to be a team of destiny so far……
TM
I think 99% of GMs in the league would still sign Lindor to that deal if they had the resources.
One year does not an albatross make.
Betts obviously needs surgery? How is that anything that’s obvious, other than an obvious guess.
“I’m vague about what it is,” Dodgers manager Dave Roberts said, “because I really don’t know what it is … when and if he goes on the IL, when he gets back I think that’s where we’re going to be at.”
No Dave, you weren’t vague about what it is. You said hip pointer. And what the hell are you saying in the last half of that statement? When he gets back, that’s where we’ll be at?
I think he wants to tell what he knows, can’t, and he’s a terrible liar.
You only tell half the story Mark.
Lindor has 2.1 WAR this year, with a +.9 dWAR. Seager 0.8. WAR with a – dWAR. Plus, he’s only making $22m this year. Not an anchor yet.
At least Lindor showed up.
But, your point is made. We’ll see how the two finish.
The answer is Turner. But I hope we can keep both.
I keep imagining this team with Mookie on it.
I’m with you Mark, I love Corey and would definitely want to make it a priority to bring him back. I feel the same way about Cody. Did you see that catch at the end of the game. He gets to everything. I also thought the ground ball that Corey go to up the middle showed his underrated range at SS. I know you can’t keep them all, so I’ll go ahead a let AF figure this out and call him a moron later if it doesn’t work out. 😉
Good win last night. Maybe we got lucky that the rain delay caused both starting pitchers to leave the game because Nolo was looking pretty stingy last night.
Seager looks like he’s getting hot and Bellinger extended his modest hitting streak to 7. It made me feel like old times. But, the key to the game was that horrible bullpen we have shutting down the home team to break their 8 game streak. Alex Vesia is quickly becoming a stud and it’s great having Knebel back even if he didn’t finish his inning. New guy Greene must have small hands or something. He can bring it, but I’m not sure he knows where it’s going.
Trea Turner is very fast and he’s got great instincts on the bases. That line drive to Harper got there really quick and Harper has a great arm and threw a strike to the plate. Most players don’t even try to score on a ball hit that hard, right to a right fielder with a great arm. Not only does Trea score on that play, but he did not hesitate at all and topped it off with a hilariously cool slide at the plate.
For those who have given up on Lux already, Trea is a preview of the type of player Lux could be.
Sign Corey, it’s a no brainer. With KJ, CK, Joe Kelly all off the books after this year the Dodger payroll can support his AAV along with Mookie’s. With Caleb Ferguson, Tommy Kahnle, perhaps Dustin May and the advancement of Pepiot, Miller, Beeter, etc. we will see the continuing blend of minimum rookie level contracts mixed in with some very large AAV contracts. I think the old adage once mentioned by Stan Kasten that you develop pitching and buy position players is what the Dodgers will do.
2022
Mookie RF
Muncy 1B
TT 2B
Seager SS
JT DH
Cody CF
Smith C
CT3 LF
Lux 3B
Buehler
Urias
Scherzer
Price
Gonsolin
White
Knebel
Bruihl
Graterol
Treinen
Vesia
Miller
Bickford
Barnes
Beaty
Rios
McKinstry
Scherzer is re-signed, Pollock is traded while his value is high in the last year of a four-year contract for some depth pieces. Need a RH bat off the bench, but CT3 is brought back as your every day LF, Knebel is re-signed. The LA to OKC train will involve Ferguson, White, Bruihl, Miller, and others. Kahnle and Ferguson might start out on the IL, but they will be huge pieces in 2022. Duffy, Hamels will be re-signed as a veteran swingman/spot starter long relief guy.
Be pigs!