Is It Joe Maddon Time?

I think Doc is a good man, a good example to our players. I also think he is really good at managing the clubhouse and gaining the players confidence (not sure about KJ after last night). However, in the face of criticism the common defense of Dos is “look at his record”. He does have a good record, but I think that he has had a great team to work with and that covers up some of his deficiencies. How much better should our record have been, especially in the post season where bad decisions are magnified.

In retrospect, Kershaw was a dumb move, but it was also inevitable. Did anyone notice the broadcast cutting to the bullpen and showing Kershaw pacing around, throwing weighted balls against a wall and otherwise acting like a snorting bull? It was setting the stage for drama filled historical matchup with the potentially future HOF coming in at the decisive moment.

I’m fond of using the example of the Malcolm Gladwell book, the Tipping Point. In particularly I like the kouros statue example, which illustrates the difference between the human ability to gain remarkable insight through intuition and experience, and reliance on observable data and scientific analysis. Human intuition often sees things that that scientific analysis can’t You can apply this to baseball and the sometimes conflicting relationship between a manager’s experience and intuition – what his eyeballs tell him – and what the data and heat maps tell him what is HISTORICALLY more likely to happen. Last year, Robert’s eyeballs should have told him that Hill was cruising, everything was clicking, he was still sharp, and could’ve probably gone through the order again. He went with The Formula. Third time through order for starting pitcher = Bad.

In this case with CK, it was worse. Instead of using his experience and judgement and eyeballs, or at least let the data guide him or go with with a plan, he made that decision based on his heart. “CK has been our heart and soul, our Ace, for more than a decade. This is his moment.” Dumb. Actually, for this reason, I think 59’s suggestion to go get Scioscia is dumb. I don’t care if he’s a former Dodger. He was blatantly insubordinate with the Angels FO, is totally old school and rejects data, and would be constantly butting heads with the organization. He’d be like Bobby Valentine. …disaster.

I think a lot of the dumb moves by Roberts last night hinge, in part, on the lack of confidence in Kenley. It reverberated in the CK move as well as Kelly going that second inning. The single most important three outs of that entire game last night was the 8th and the heart of the Nats order. That was a situation tailor made for an alternative usage of your lockdown closer. If Kenley was still that guy, I would have put him in to face Rendon and Soto. If you get through that inning with a two run lead with Zimmerman, Gomes and Taylor due up in the 9th, you’re almost home free.

If the manager has so little confidence in your closer that he doesn’t eve make it into a game 5, it’s time to rethink your closer. He won’t opt out. The Dodger are just going to have to figure out what the options are in FA or internally and let Kenley take a complementary role. The problem is, there’s just a shortage of lockdown relievers. AC mentioned Giles and Smith. I don’t think those guys are much better, and AC was lukewarm on Giles just because he melted in that role with the Astros.

The Dodgers have money coming off the books. Yes, they can go after a FA. Financially I think the strategy should be to plan our contracts to just make sure you can get the team under the line every few years or so to avoid the steep penalty, but give yourself the latitude to go over it when it resets. I honestly don’t know who they should get. I actually feel a little like the window has started to close. Yeah, we have a good farm, but the guys coming up aren’t necessarily going to be stars to carry the team. It was hoped that Cody and Seager would be the nucleus, but now none of us are sure of that.

This will be a very long post, feel free to skim it! But I have a lot to say after a very long and at some times very rewarding, but ultimately very disappointing and frustrating season. First, I have appreciated this site, with intelligent people usually making their comments in a polite fashion. It has allowed me to vent a bit, as well.

The theme of much of what I have written at length about is my very real sense that the Dodgers ownership is much more concerned about maximizing profits than winning championships. I point back to the letter that the LAT and Bill Shaikin unearthed where the owners promised prospective new investors that they would not go more than minimally over the luxury tax threshold for the next five years. They denied it then, but I’m sure it’s true. I think that is appalling. No one expects the Dodgers to carry $300 million in payroll, but they make tons of money, and the fans are so loyal, and we deserve much more than we get. The only major free agent they ever signed was Greinke, and that was clearly to cement the much desired TV deal with Time Warner. Since then, they have shed payroll, raised ticket prices each year. They have signed no major free agents, nor have they made blockbuster trades.

To me, it is has seemed that every decision is based on “payroll prudence.” No Scherzer, no Verlander, no Stanton, no Yelich, no Goldschmidt, no Harper. Did I want all of these? No, but I totally agree with AC in that we need a couple more big stars, those rare players who can galvanize a team, who often come up big in the playoffs. Oh, and please note that Shaikin interviewed a minority Dodgers owner a few year ago who said that he was impatiently waiting for the payroll to get to the middle of the pack. That is disgraceful to me, but it may be the mindset.

We would actually be much better off if we had one very wealthy owner who wanted to win, and who was willing to occasionally not make big profits in a season, for the glory and joy of a title. But we have a bunch of owners, we just added two this year. These are corporate investors, and they value profits over all. In fact, the major ownership virtually has to guarantee them profits to get them to sign on. So there is almost no hope, as far as I see it, that suddenly we will start spending big again for free agents. And the reality is that in today’s baseball world, you almost have to supplement your homegrown players with a couple of high-level free agents or trade pieces. If you don’t want to do that, you shouldn’t be in the game, not if you want to win titles rather than pile up money.

The Dodgers have deliberately removed themselves from a key part of building championship teams. They have done very well without it, but obviously not well enough. Kasten did virtually the same thing in Atlanta, great regular season teams, almost no titles until they finally got so much heat that they signed Greg Maddox, so they got one title. Kasten came in here with the promise to the Guggenheim Group that he could win with controlled payroll. Friedman was brought in to play a version of “Moneyball” with a franchise which is not the A’s, but is in the second major market in the country, with the largest consistent fan base. I never liked this group when it bought the team; and while they are certainly far better than the grifter McCourt, they are not what we need. If they sold the Dodgers tomorrow, I would welcome the chance to maybe get the right kind of owner here. But they may be here for thirty years or more, they own a cash machine, and that is what most of their shareholders from different parts of the country see it as, not how the devoted and passionate fans see it.

That is a tragedy, at least in the sports realm, and it bothers me greatly. It also seems to connote to me that things are not suddenly going to get much better, that we are going to just see variations of the same theme going forward. The saving grace of being a sports fan is the excitement and hope fo the next seasons. I had that as a boy when I followed the O’Malley Dodgers. Not because O’Malley wasn’t also rather cheap, but because he still had the Branch Rickey people like Bavasi and Campanis, and you knew that they were going to make some trades, find some players who could help win titles. I loved the offseason because of that. Now I know that it will consist mostly of minor league trades, and then watching other franchises make the big splashes by paying for the few elite players out there.

I will just leave that subject out there to consider. Going into this season, the bullpen should have been “fixed” or at least improved, in the offseason. It was not that effective last year, not in the World Series. Jansen was a real question mark. They got Kelly, who really had only had one big year, the last one. Then they just sent the barely patched up bullpen out there. In the midseason, they only picked up one short-stint reliever in Kolarek, a good addition, but not enough. They also needed another starter when Hill looked to be out or badly hampered for the rest of the season. Mostly, they just sat there and did nothing. To me, that reflects arrogance and cheapness. Now, yes, we could have won last night and then we would be in the NLCS, and maybe have a chance to get away with it, though I never thought we would beat the Astros and Yankees. But surely we can see that when you enter the playoffs with only three legitimate starters, and a very iffy bullpen, it is going to catch up with you. Note that the bullpen gave up 11 runs in the last two playoff games.

Watching last night, one felt very comfortable as long as Buehler was out there. Once he was taken out, we saw the horror show of Roberts grasping at bullpen pieces, much as we had seen in other games this year. We only had one reliable relief pitcher, Maeda. Urias, but had Roberts overused him in the earlier games? Kelly is mostly a dud. Jansen was on the roster, pitched one strong inning in the playoffs, and Roberts did not trust him enough to use him last night. So he somehow goes to Kershaw, who is not a reliever, who does not pitch well in early innings, who gives up home runs

Look at the Yankees, or Cardinals or Rays, they have a staff of relievers who all look pretty good to me. Why do the Dodgers not have that? That is one of the cornerstones to winning a title. You don’t just go into the season with a haphazard bullpen, and then hope that it will all work out in the playoffs. How many key playoff games have we lost in the last several years because of the bullpen? Plenty. Spend enough and be discerning enough to put together an strong bullpen, and we might have won three titles. But we don’t do that, too much money, too many contracts which are not cost controlled. We just back and fill, hold onto Baez for years, pick up guys like Hatcher or Johnson or Kelly who are either wild or give up plenty of homeruns. We have no legitimate closer. How do you go into a season without a reliable closer? ? And we don’t have one for next year, either, nor a reliable setup man.

We also need a great bat in the lineup, to at least take the pressure off Belllinger and Seager in the playoffs. Goldschmidt would have been that. JD Martinez a couple of years ago. Nope, too pricey. We cannot have any confidence that Bellinger is going to come up big in playoffs, this is two seasons where he has not done the job, despite how much we admire his abilities. Seager had a terrible playoff, 3 for 20, and was a strikeout machine. You cannot score runs if you do not hit the ball. It was embarrassing to watch Bellinger and Seager and Pollock wave at the same pitches time after time. Maybe one big bat in the middle of the lineup would help a great deal. But who is that? And how do we get him with our luxury tax obsession, and paying Kershaw $30 million to be a #4 starter?

And it is fascinating to note that the way the Dodgers do it, relying on young players and reclamations, they have almost no trade pieces. Who on the 25-man roster would anyone give up major talent for in a trade? Buehler and Bellinger, whom we would never trade. Otherwise, we can’t even put together a big trade, unless we traded a bunch of top prospects, and even then those trades usually occur at the deadline, because teams are not going to sell season tickets and create interest if they trade their best players for prospects during the offseason. So we are truly stuck, unless we go after free agents. And how many great free agents are there each year? Maybe one or at most two, and they get tremendous bidding, and we bow out. And if we actually take a chance sometime again, we had better be darn sure that we got someone whose past history makes it very likely that they will be worth it. Note that the Yankees are wiling to gamble in that way, even if they occasionally get a Stanton who might have been a mistake. But they got Chapman and LeMahieu and earlier Sabathia, and then spent a lot for Tanaka out of Japan. Houston got Verlander, traded for Cole, got Miley, recently Greinke. Not all free agents, but big acquisitions. And of course Washington got Scherzer, and St. Louis got Goldschmidt. All these teams are still battling for the title.

As to Roberts, I agree that he is not at all a good game manager, not in big games against top teams. He has no feel for handling the bullpen, not the way that a master like Bochy did. Roberts sticks to his gameplan and does not react quickly when one of his relievers shows dangerous signs of not being “on.” I have no idea why he decided that he wanted to use Kershaw last night, but he telegraphed it a day earlier. Then he left him in after the first home run, which was ludicrous. Roberts has been a major factor in us being eliminated in the playoffs in the last three seasons.

That said, I doubt that there is someone out there who would make that much of a difference, with the teams the ownership and FO gives him. I would imagine that the players like him, and that is worth something. Now, if we could get a more astute manager and give him enough pieces, that would be ideal. If we are going to send a similar roster out there next year, Roberts probably is as good to manage them as anyone else–unless we could unearth a great managerial prospect. I am tired of Roberts, and his always-positive attitude after games, and his inability to strategize in a game. I would not be upset if he were fired, but I would not expect that it would do much to help us win titles–not without the talent upgrades we need. But at this point i am so upset, that I’d just as soon see him fired, just because he did such a terrible job in the biggest game of the year, and then stood up on the postgame show and said how very confident he was in Kershaw and Kelly. I felt very bad for Kershaw, who took all the blame. He did a bad job, but Roberts put him out there when he should not have.

Now, to Friedman and the Front Office. I think that AF is a smart guy, and has done very well in unearthing under-the-radar players such as Muncy and Taylor. I don’t know how many constraints the ownership places him under as far as spending, or bidding for free agents. His forays into the FA market have not been impressive. Pollock and Kelly, not good. I remember Kazmir. There may have been others. Hill was a good trade pickup, though he is always hurt. Other than that, I can’t remember much that he has picked up in trades. Grandal is not a good catcher. Wood had one big year. Most of the relievers he has picked up in trades, like Jim Johnson, Avilan, Cigrani, Hatcher, were busts, or were injured. Morrow was a great find, but they let him leave after a big year, and now he is hurt again. Kendrick was a pretty good trade (Gordon for Heaney for Kendrick), but he tailed off and they let him go, and now he hits a grand slam against us for the series win. So I think that there are better potential GMs than Friedman, but again, how do we identify them, and get them? I do not want Josh Byrnes to be GM! But we are likely to get him if AF leaves. I liked having Anthropolous around for help, but that was a luxury. And frankly, would a great GM want to come here with the obvious payroll constraints, plus having to pay Kershaw and to a lesser extent Pollock and Kelly for the next couple of years?

So what can the ownership do to at least somewhat redeem the faithfulness of the Dodgers fans? Because with the NBA teams, and the Rams, there are those who will tire of spending the long baseball seasons rooting for a team which wins a lot of mostly meaningless games, only to bow out in the playoffs. Get Cole, I guess, though we would be buying high. We don’t have a legitimate #2 starter,and you can’t ever expect to win a title without one. Somehow get a major bat for the middle of the lineup, and rely less on prospects who have failed on the playoff stages. Just hoping that they will somehow do great things in the next playoffs is much too optimistic. Make sure that Buehler is signed for many years, he is the cornerstone of the franchise.

We have to add players to deal with the fact that Turner, because of consistent injuries, is on a downward trajectory as far as season contributions. We need a strong four-man rotation. We need a much better bullpen and we certainly need a high-end closer. That is a lot. We do have some fine young prospects, but so do some other franchises. I would guess that St. Louis and Atlanta will be better than us next year, not to mention the Yankees and Astros in the AL. If we want to win a title, we have to go into the season with a better roster than they do. The best roster does not always win the title, but it is much more likely than imagining that a team with significant holes in the bullpen and the starting staff, plus a lineup which has two years in a row been made to look inept in the playoffs by strong pitching, is going to somehow break through and do what it has not yet done. Bottom line: make major changes, spend more money, or we are not even going to be as good next year, much less better.

Molly Knight nails it in The Athletic:

There’s a huge misconception that Dave Roberts is some sort of analytics puppet. But his late-inning playoff blunders have nothing to do with analytics. They’re all gut. Which is terrifying.

Which is why Freidman should fire him.

The Article:

What a huge disappointment last night. Roberts needs to go. He’s a great den mother with the players, but is an absolute failure when it comes to field management.

With Kershaw Roberts gets a strikeout to end the seventh. Awesome. It’s been a pattern recently for Kershaw to give up home runs in the first or second inning. I know that, Roberts knows that, the whole world knows that. The eighth inning was Kershaw’s first inning. And, right on cue he allows two home runs. Kershaw did his job in the seventh. Roberts refused to use our “locked and loaded bullpen”. If not now, then when?

I was alarmed to see Kelly out there in the ninth, but he came through with a shutdown inning. And, I too was shocked when he was standing on the mound in the tenth. WHAT???

Again, the bullpen was locked and loaded for this game. Well rested and all hands on deck. What the hell was Roberts thinking? Obviously, he wasn’t. Roberts says he had a good feeling with Kelly in there. Well, he had to be the only one. You have 8-9 other guys available and you stay with Kelly, the most unpredictable pitcher on the team. To get one outstanding inning from him was a gift and Roberts sends him out again expecting the same thing. And, then leaves him in after watching him hit the first batter in the eighth. That should have been it for Kelly. But no. Let’s all watch him self destruct and give up a grand slam. What the hell??? I repeat. Roberts needs to be replaced by a manger who can manage a game on the field. Who is that person? I have no idea. All the good ones are probably currently employed.

As far as are best hitters goes what a gigantic failure on their part. Hats off to Max Muncy for actually performing like he did during the season. With Pollock, how does what he did happen? He was hitting well to close out the season and to put on the performance he did in this series is just “there’s just no word for it” I’ll just use the word pathetic. To strike out 11 times in 13 ABs is beyond Cody Bellinger 2017 WS which I thought was impossible to duplicate. Cory proved to be another can’t hit good pitching. I’m sitting on my couch calling out pitches made to Cory when he had two strikes. Curve balls down and usually in and fastballs high and away. No home runs or RBIs. And, finally Mr. MVP. I’ve always been critical of Cody’s desire to hit the living crap out of every pitch he swings at. Why is that necessary? His swing can be successful with fair to poor pitchers as do most good hitters. But, when it comes to top line pitchers his swing cannot hold up. Never does, never will. Throw him a 94+ fastball between his belt and letters he can’t catch up to hit the ball. Best he can do is foul the ball off or hit popups. With left handed pitchers just give him a slider or curve ball that ends two feet outside and he’ll stick his butt into the first base dugout and make a feeble swing. How does someone so athletic take such bad swings? But, I have to acknowledge he did make huge strides in hitting left handers and cutting down strikeouts this year. But, when you are a MVP candidate expectations are high in the playoffs. Again, no home runs and RBIs. Some people are calling for trading Cory and/or Cody. I think that is absurd and a overreaction. Even with their failures in the playoffs who are we going to replace them with? You do have to win during the season in order to get into the playoffs.

So, for 2020:

Fire Roberts

Resign Ryu for ONE year.

Spend whatever it takes to land Gerrit Cole. We need another ace to go with Buehler. We’ll have approx $90MM to spend in 2020. I know most of that will be used to resign current roster. The value of the team is now between 3.5B-4B. That’s a nice return for ownership since they bought the team. Now, spend what it takes to get a championship. The owners have made theirs. The fans deserve an all out attempt to have the best team in the world. Mistakes will be made in free agent signings (Kelly, Pollack) but you have to try.

Trade Kershaw to Texas. He’s no more than a 3-4 pitcher and a proven failure in the playoffs. He’s not going to get better. His results over a large sample are his results. Cole or Kershaw? No brainer.

Tell Kenley he is no longer the closer and hopefully he opts out and moves on.

Trade from 40 man and farm to get more bullpen depth and backup for Turner. Or have Beaty spend the winter learning to play third base. Might be a stretch, but it would be nice to find a spot for him as a fill in for Turner.

Rotation:

Ryu

Buehler

Cole

Urias

May

Gossolin in bullpen (possible closer?)

Lots of takes this morning. Here’s mine:

1 – I get that Roberts brought in Kershaw to get the last out in the 7th (a lefty, Eaton). I assumed that he wouldn’t bring Kershaw in to get 1 out so wasn’t surprised to see him pitch to Rendon to start the 8th. I also assumed that he would pitch to Soto since he’s a lefty. They didn’t want to have Rendon hit against Kolarek or to burn 3 pitchers in the 8th. Kershaw didn’t get it done, but I don’t put this on Roberts.

2 – I was shocked to see Kelly left in to pitch the 10th, and even more shocked to see him left in after allowing the 1st 2 guys to reach base. Kelly hardly pitched since the beginning of September. Anyone notice he hardly threw his fastball? I wonder why. That was a horrible decision.

3 – Walking Soto made sense. Since there were no outs, it set up a force at the plate.

4 – I think that Roberts showed that he has no faith in Jansen – I was very surprised not to see him come in to start the 10th. Not that I have much faith in him at this point either.

5 – Can Roberts? Maybe. He is not much as a strategist. He is a good players’ manager but not at Xs and Os.

6 – Can Friedman? No way that happens. I agree that he hasn’t been aggressive as I might like at signing free agents or addressing bullpen needs (except in 2017 for the ‘pen), but he has done his job at putting together teams that win. But

7 – The other day, I quoted Pedro Moura at The Athletic as saying ” But, at one point or another, depth will become irrelevant, and a team’s fate will depend on its stars. It almost always does.” The Friedman way has been to prize depth 1st.

8 – And here’s where it come down: many of the Dodgers’ stars have a bad track record in the post-season. Bellinger, Seager, Kershaw and Jansen. After last year, the Dodgers let Grandal walk – and his history in the post-season was an important reason why. Does this mean that the Dodgers trade Seager or Bellinger? I seriously doubt it. And Kershaw and Jansen aren’t going anywhere.

9 – So what do they do to solve the problem?

a. They have to rebuild the rotation – not that it’s a problem but I doubt that Ryu or Hill come back – Hill’s done and Ryu has Satan as his agent and he’ll be too expensive. So Urias, May or Gonsolin will get a chance to show what they can do. Do they spend the money on the likes of Cole? Doubtful – not the Friedman way.

b. They are too lefthanded. Lux, Belli, Seager, Joc and Muncy. Which will be traded? What right-handed bat do they acquire? Do they spend the money on the likes of Rendon? Not the Friedman way.

c. Do they unload guys who don’t perform in the post-season? If so, who? Does that allow them to become less left-handed?

d. What do they do to solve their bullpen problem?

e. I think that Friedman stays but Roberts goes. The team loves him and it will be a tough sell so the new manager will have to be able to solve that issue too. No to Maddon. It will probably be someone that no one has thought of.

Kershaw just doesn’t seem to be able to keep from serving up HRs. Refuses or doesn’t have the ability to develop new pitches. Like a simple change up. Doesn’t have the command of the zone a pitcher with his fading physical gifts needs. It’s sad and the end of an era. Been happening for a while now. Bellinger and Seager were effectively neutralized. Not what we need from franchise players. Are they the future? Does that bode well for the team? Beats me. I don’t see DR coming back… but who knows. I’ve been an L.A. Dodger fan from the get go and have seen a lot of heartbreaking losses. 1966 comes to mind. The loss to the Orioles in the WS and then the way greater loss of Koufax. Now that was devastating. So, back to the drawing board. Draw up another plan and hope the players can execute it when the going gets tough. I’ll be back. Hope maybe next year will be THE YEAR. And maybe we could put a few YEARS together. If yer gonna hope, hope big. I predict another west div champ for next year. As for the post season, no prediction.

As I’ve stated in previous posts, the Dodgers are built for the regular season in an extremely weak National League West and National League in general. Good pitching stops the Dodger offense as it’s been shown the last three years in post season. You also need power starting arms in the post season and besides Buehler, the Dodgers have nobody to fill that role. Dave Roberts can’t manage under pressure in the post season. Andrew Friedman has a lot of work to do to rebuild a bullpen and starting staff. Cole would be a nice fit,but I don’t see the Dodgers spending $200K. The minor league system is loaded ,so it’s time to use those assets to acquire missing pieces. We need a healthy Verdugo back and a possible trade package of Stripling,Barnes and Beatty or Peterson to acquire bullpen help or a big right handed bat. A very disappointing conclusion to the 2019 season.

Some random thoughts:

1) A lot of anger out there in Dodger world today. Kind of mirrors what the world looks like these days.

2) A little bit of extra irony that the winning pitcher and guy who got the winning hit are both ex-Dodgers

3) Very much agree with dodgerpatch that a lot of the bad bullpen decisions Doc made last night ultimately were created by his lack of confidence in Kenley

4) Very much agree with AC that this team needs a field leader (non-pitcher) who has lots of talent coupled with major attitude. We have a great group of guys but the guy most point to as the field leader (JT) is a soft spoken guy and basically leads by example. We need another Kirk Gibson/Reggie Jackson, etc. Where to find him? Ah……………………………..that’s the question.

5) For those who want to fire Doc, he has his good points and his bad ones. Overall I personally feel more positively than negatively about him but he hasn’t led us to the Promised Land in four tries so if the powers that be decide to make a change I wouldn’t be devastated. But where to find someone who could actually do better?

6) For those want to hire Joe Maddon, how many playoff games did the Cubs win this year? And the man was just fired by a GM whom some consider superior to Friedman. No thank you.

7) My guts weren’t ripped apart last night when I saw the grand slam, and that surprised me. Maybe my subconscious already knew that game was lost. I’ve been a Dodger fan for over 60 years and I ain’t gonna stop bein’ one now. I got my last one in ’88 and I may never see another one, but I’ve enjoyed the ride tremendously in spite of all the recent potholes.

Silver lining is AF will have more time to hold organizational meetings and start the blueprint for 2020.

Fans will continue to show up (nearly four million this year) but as for me I will watch curiously to see what AF does this year.

I make at least four weekend trips a year to DS, have gone to ST probably 7-8 times both at VB and CBR and this summer followed the Dodgers to four NL cities to see them play on the road.

I will always remain a Dodger fan for life but I’ll also hold to my $$ to see what AF does. It’s time for Guggenheim to tell AF to spend to get Rendon, Cole and seek strategic trades to strengthen the roster and the minor league pipeline.

What a disheartening loss last night. I had hoped for so much more. Wait until next year.

One thing I’ve learned from conducting 100s of mediations, people don’t make their best decisions when angry or when overly emotional. I’m going to let this sink in for awhile before I start considering the moves needed for next year.

Fire Roberts and Honeycutt! I am so sick of their incompetent game calls over the past 3 years which have cost the team two titles. They continued to pitch to Rendon and the 20 y/o … there was no reason for it–walk them or hit them, don’t give them a chance. Where was Kenley? Once Kershaw gave up that one to Rendon, put in Koralek against the 20 y/o! Kelly got lit up game 4… and did the same to lose the series giving up the grand slam. They bring in Kenley after the slam? Seriously? Dollar short a day late. Pollock was hitless and they bring him in the 10th for Joc who actually had a chance. Smh. Roberts and Honeycutt are paid the big bucks and can’t see the big picture. They have way too much confidence in Kershaw. He is old and washed up. At best he could come out of the pen, which is apparently is questionable as well. The Dodgers get too cocky and under estimate the opponent. Playoff teams are dangerous teams. 3 runs are not going to win a playoff game. Lay down a bunt, steal a base, get hit by a pitch. Do anything to win. The Dodgers are soft. They always have been and always will be. I’ve watched them for 35 years grew up 15 minutes from the stadium and their lack of competativeness is something to spit on. They bank on their skills and have no heart. Flashy overpaid hype. They play too loose and lackadasical . Bring in Joe Madden. We need some anger, some grit, and intelligent baseball moves. I don’t think I’ll be turning on the games next year if Roberts is still there–can’t stand that guy’s face . Time for new blood.

“I felt good about Clayton right there. Eaton, and when you got Rendon and Soto, so I felt that I liked Clayton. He threw, I don’t know what it was, a couple pitches, and we had Clayton ready for whatever today. So for Maeda to go through Soto, Kenta in this role, we really liked him against the right-hander. And the success that Clayton’s had against Soto with the two-run lead, I’ll take Clayton any day in that situation. I just think it’s one of those where it was easy for me to get Clayton, with the low pitches to get Rendon and to go out there and get Soto. And to have Kenta behind him. That was my thought, and not have Kenta go through Soto.”

Can anyone even explain what this means?

If you can’t properly explain you reasoning, that means you didn’t think it through properly.

Rick’s was an astute post, but I’ll disagree with the comment about burning pitchers. That 8th inning, and in particular getting through Rendon and Soto, are where you need to burn through pitchers and play the best matchup just to get those two guys out.

The Dodgers had May, Kenta, Baez, Kolarek, Kenley and Kelly. What would you be saving them for?

The team won A FRANCHISE RECORD this year. The Dodgers didn’t need to deviate from what got them there. Maeda was in the pen to shore things up and he did. He had been better than we could all hope. The Dodgers didn’t need to be the team deviating and bringing in a starting pitcher out of desperation. I dont how Rendon hit that pitch out but this plan to piggyback CK seemed like a bad idea when it was apparent that Maeda had been the real weapon out of the pen.

~

We all knew the CK had struggled in his first inning all year long. He’s no longer capable of throwing gas. Bringing him out of pen like it was a must move made no sense to me. I defended pinch hitting for Maeda in Game 4 because he would be needed in Game 5. I thought Roberts saw that too.

~

If Roberts gets canned so be it. I don’t want Maddon though. My concerns about Cody and Cory came true. Especially Seager. Bellinger having some better swings after Game 2. He played good D and stole some bases.

~

I’ve been thinking lately about a so-called dope fiend move. I don’t care what JDM’s defensive flaws are. I would rather see him in LF than Pollock. The Dodgers need a RH bat someone much better and reliable than AJ Pollock especially with JT getting

older. Seager may have put himself on the trade block but I haven’t seen enough of Lux to feel comfortable with that move.

Yesterday I said that if we lost this series, there would be calls to fire both Doc and Friedman, get rid of the ownership people, and strip the team down and pretty much start over. I also said there would be calls for a new stadium. I’ve seen pretty much all of that except for faulting the stadium, when in fact, that is where the blame belongs.

If right field were 5 feet shorter, we’d all be talking about Smith’s walk off homer today and getting ready to beat the Cards in the NLCS.

Five feet and a lot of you would be singing a different tune today.

I’ve been a die-hard Dodger fan for over 60 years and I’m just amazed that I’m not feeling the anger that all of you seem to be spewing today. I’m not telling you that you shouldn’t be angry, I’m just wondering why I’m not. My guys played their asses off during the series. Some of them played horribly and that ultimately cost us a chance to move on. Am I disappointed? Absolutely. Am I frustrated? Definitely. But I’m not angry. And I don’t really know why.

.! As a team they just didn’t play well enough and maybe they just aren’t good enough. But I don’t agree with you about their attitude, their heart or how hard they play. It’s a quality group of young men with a lot of class. Proud to be a Dodger fan!

Unbelievable.. I was saying ok, when buehler is done they need to go to Maeda .. he’s been very effective against the team that has scored over 200 runs after the 7th.. they show him warming up.. I’m thinking ok cool.. then I see kershaw come out .. now I’m like WTF.. but thinking ok just for Eaton.. no problem .. ok Maeda to face rendon, Soto and kedricks.. WHAT?.. kershaw again .. can Roberts not read or understand a stat sheet?.. does he not know that rendon has gotten more hits off kershaw than any other dodger pitcher?? Ok so after rendon hits the ball to San Diego, you keep a guy in there that can’t break a window with his fastball trying to blow one buy the next best hitter in the lineup .. this one winds up just south of the border.. then Maeda.. seriously .. even better, let’s give our team a fighting chance in the 10th.. we’ll lead off with a guy that is 0-12 and 10ks.. way to show them Dave.. when you got a guy Russell martin that had a double and hr in the last game he played .. as opposed to his last year in T-ball.. Roberts either doesn’t want to win or doesn’t know how to win .. he is a complete idiot and needs to go.. this years team would’ve been like coaching the ’93 cowboys .. and losing !… he’s an idiot ..

Just a comment on many who have said that Doc s decisions based on him not having confidence in Kenley. Ok, but you mean he felt that bringing in a tired Kelly for a second inning was a better choice. Something is not making sense here.

OK guys, our off-season begins today and we need to help Friedman build a better juggernaut.

Most all of us seem to think we need a right-handed power bat.

Martinez will probably opt out and be available

Castellanos and Abreu are free agents.

Bryant may be available in trade.

Javier Baez may be available (although unlikely)

Betts may be available in trade.

Lindor may be available in trade. (not necessarily a power bat but a very good player)

Any thoughts?

Trade Seager for Bryant. Trade Urias, Kelly , Joc for Mookie Betts. Sign Cole. Find someone to take bad contract of pollock . Trade for Lindor. Let Hill, Freese, Walk out. …

Here’s Houston Mitchell of The Times:

“And you know what? We all saw this coming. The bullpen problems. Kershaw and Bellinger fading. The lack of plate discipline in crucial situations. I wrote about it all season, you wrote to me about it all season. Meanwhile the Dodgers marched merrily on. “We have postseason experience now. We have a lot of depth. Our bullpen will work itself out.” I don’t want to hear any of that again.”

And:

“– The 10th starts and Kelly is back out there again, despite not being a great two-inning pitcher. His ERA in appearances that last more than an inning this season: 8.39.”

Surely someone on the Dodgers had to know that Kelly is no good after he’s pitched an inning.

And

“– I don’t mind the Dodgers losing when they get beat by a better team. But to give the other team opportunity after opportunity because of mismanagement is inexcusable. Roberts is a great 162-game season manager, when you can afford to give away a game or two here or there. But he’s a terrible playoff manager, where every mistake is magnified and every win is precious.”

And one more:

“– Here’s what I know about the Dodgers and the playoffs. Their best pitcher (Kershaw) falls apart. Their best hitter (Cody Bellinger) is a nonentity. Bellinger had a grand total of zero RBIs in this postseason. Zero. Good thing for him that NL MVP votes were due before the playoffs began, because if they weren’t he’d finish third behind Anthony Rendon and Christian Yellich.

— Rendon went seven for 17 with three doubles, a homer, five RBIs and five runs scored. That’s what MVP candidates are supposed to do in the postseason.”

First let me say that I’m a life long Dodger Fan. I played the game and I’ve been a student of the game my entire life. To reach the pinnacle of winning a championship you need people who have done it before. That goes from bottom to top. Scouts, players, coaches, managers, front office, ownership. One common denominator with the Dodgers is that no one anywhere in the organization has won a World Series Championship where they had a significant part as a player, coach, manager or as a front office decision maker. Some of you might say what about Tommy Lasorda? True. But he’s 93 years old and can’t remember what he ate for breakfast. You say what about David Freese? Yep. I agree. Good guy to have on the club just like Chase Utley was. Problem is these guys were and are strictly role players who don’t play enough to make significant contributions. Dave Roberts ? Yep. Stole a base that sparked one of the greatest comebacks in playoff history. But did he really make any significant contribution? The answer is no.

Now let’s talk about the real roots of this issue which is the front office. The team president is 42 years old. He never played professional baseball. He has benefited from being with two top tier baseball franchises Tampa and LA. Tampa was a great job for him. Under no pressure to perform in a small media market. Touted as one of the best young minds in baseball! Ok, ownership decides he’s the guy yet he never played the game. Never rode the bus in the minors with no air conditioning and with $10 of meal money for the trip. Never wore a jersey that had four different name changes on it. Never knew what it was like to grind everyday not knowing if you’re going play or get released. So here are the keys to the franchise ! Make it happen! Oh, by the way here’s $300,000,000 you need to manage and don’t worry about the $43,000,000 we have to pay in luxury tax! Oh, we also have the best minor league system in baseball so try not to screw that up! To top it off we haven’t won a World Series in 30 years and your immediate bosses including Magic Johnson don’t know a thing about baseball but expect championships. Go get’em Tiger!!!!

So I would imagine once his head stopped spinning he might address what the clubs needs are. Well, we have a great young core of players! Buehler, Bellinger, Seager, Lux, etc. We have some good arms coming up too in May, Gonsolin. But we do have a need for a catcher who can actually catch the baseball and the bullpen needs a revamp. We could also use a couple more starting pitchers as Kershaw is now showing his age and our young arms need more seasoning before we bring them up.

Ok, here’s my plan. Let’s fire Donny Baseball and replace him with Dave Roberts? Hmmm. No managerial experience but he’s a great guy with a positive attitude. Now let’s go get some players. JT Realmuto can be had for Gavin Lux. Nope we want to keep Lux. Ok, now we can get Realmuto in free agency for cheap!!!! Nope. Austin Barnes can do the job. Hmmm. Ok, let’s go get a starting pitcher at the deadline!!! Yeah, Yu Darvish! What about Jason Verlander? Nope. He’s old and done. Hmmmm. Ok, let’s address the bullpen. Let’s resign Morrow he’s really done a great job getting us to Kenley to close out games. Nope. Let’s sign Joe Kelly to a long term deal after all he shut us down in the World Series last year!!!! Hmmmm. You know what else? Kenley’s Cutter ain’t cutting like it used to. We could use another closer. Nope. Adam Kolarek is the answer a left handed situational guy. Hmmmm. Ok, so we really didn’t address any of our needs before the trade deadline? Nope. We like our roster besides Jed Gyorko is going to provide some veteran leadership and some extra pop to the lineup! Shouldn’t we have signed some more players or make a trade of some sort? Nope. Unfortunately, we’re still playing Scott Kazmir the $48,000,000 whom we’ve decided to trade to the along with Brandon McCarthy who we also gave $48,000,000 to along with a disgruntled Adrain Gonzalez to the Braves but we still pay their salaries so we’re done spending. Besides, we are practically paying all our young guys nothing and they will lead us to the promise land. Hmmmmm. Corey Seager can’t hit the ball down and in so let’s bat him 5th? Cody Bellinger is the mvp but has only hit .178 total in the postseason. Hmmmm. Ok, you know what we’re on the brink of losing in the divisional playoff so with the game and series on the line our manager is going to tell everyone on Earth that Clayton Kershaw is going to be brought in to save the game? Hmmmm. Well, Walker Buehler is still throwing 98 on the black and getting guys out! Nope. Kershaw is our guy. Hmmmm. You do know that he’s 9-11 in his postseason career and has given up 24 home runs? Yeah, but he’s Clayton Kershaw!!!! Hmmmm. Well, that didn’t work out but we still can easily win this game and advance so let’s try Joe Kelly instead of Kenley Jansen. Hmmmm. Ok, well you do understand that Joe Kelly is a mental case and only threw 6 pitches the last few weeks of the season? Nope. He shut us down last year so he’ll step up here. We can’t trust Kenley anymore. Hmmmm. Ok, well let’s hope Howie Kendrick doesn’t comeback to haunt us!

First let me say that I’m a life long Dodger Fan. I played the game and I’ve been a student of the game my entire life. To reach the pinnacle of winning a championship you need people who have done it before. That goes from bottom to top. Scouts, players, coaches, managers, front office, ownership. One common denominator with the Dodgers is that no one anywhere in the organization has won a World Series Championship where they had a significant part as a player, coach, manager or as a front office decision maker. Some of you might say what about Tommy Lasorda? True. But he’s 93 years old and can’t remember what he ate for breakfast. You say what about David Freese? Yep. I agree. Good guy to have on the club just like Chase Utley was. Problem is these guys were and are strictly role players who don’t play enough to make significant contributions. Dave Roberts ? Yep. Stole a base that sparked one of the greatest comebacks in playoff history. But did he really make any significant contribution? The answer is no.

Now let’s talk about the real roots of this issue which is the front office. The team president is 42 years old. He never played professional baseball. He has benefited from being with two top tier baseball franchises Tampa and LA. Tampa was a great job for him. Under no pressure to perform in a small media market. Touted as one of the best young minds in baseball! Ok, ownership decides he’s the guy yet he never played the game. Never rode the bus in the minors with no air conditioning and with $10 of meal money for the trip. Never wore a jersey that had four different name changes on it. Never knew what it was like to grind everyday not knowing if you’re going play or get released. So here are the keys to the franchise ! Make it happen! Oh, by the way here’s $300,000,000 you need to manage and don’t worry about the $43,000,000 we have to pay in luxury tax! Oh, we also have the best minor league system in baseball so try not to screw that up! To top it off we haven’t won a World Series in 30 years and your immediate bosses including Magic Johnson don’t know a thing about baseball but expect championships. Go get’em Tiger!!!!

So I would imagine once his head stopped spinning he might address what the clubs needs are. Well, we have a great young core of players! Buehler, Bellinger, Seager, Lux, etc. We have some good arms coming up too in May, Gonsolin. But we do have a need for a catcher who can actually catch the baseball and the bullpen needs a revamp. We could also use a couple more starting pitchers as Kershaw is now showing his age and our young arms need more seasoning before we bring them up.

Ok, here’s my plan. Let’s fire Donny Baseball and replace him with Dave Roberts? Hmmm. No managerial experience but he’s a great guy with a positive attitude. Now let’s go get some players. JT Realmuto can be had for Gavin Lux. Nope we want to keep Lux. Ok, now we can get Realmuto in free agency for cheap!!!! Nope. Austin Barnes can do the job. Hmmm. Ok, let’s go get a starting pitcher at the deadline!!! Yeah, Yu Darvish! What about Jason Verlander? Nope. He’s old and done. Hmmmm. Ok, let’s address the bullpen. Let’s resign Morrow he’s really done a great job getting us to Kenley to close out games. Nope. Let’s sign Joe Kelly to a long term deal after all he shut us down in the World Series last year!!!! Hmmmm. You know what else? Kenley’s Cutter ain’t cutting like it used to. We could use another closer. Nope. Adam Kolarek is the answer a left handed situational guy. Hmmmm. Ok, so we really didn’t address any of our needs before the trade deadline? Nope. We like our roster besides Jed Gyorko is going to provide some veteran leadership and some extra pop to the lineup! Shouldn’t we have signed some more players or make a trade of some sort? Nope. Unfortunately, we’re still playing Scott Kazmir the $48,000,000 whom we’ve decided to trade to the along with Brandon McCarthy who we also gave $48,000,000 to along with a disgruntled Adrain Gonzalez to the Braves but we still pay their salaries so we’re done spending. Besides, we are practically paying all our young guys nothing and they will lead us to the promise land. Hmmmmm. Corey Seager can’t hit the ball down and in so let’s bat him 5th? Cody Bellinger is the mvp but has only hit .178 total in the postseason. Hmmmm. Ok, you know what we’re on the brink of losing in the divisional playoff so with the game and series on the line our manager is going to tell everyone on Earth that Clayton Kershaw is going to be brought in to save the game? Hmmmm. Well, Walker Buehler is still throwing 98 on the black and getting guys out! Nope. Kershaw is our guy. Hmmmm. You do know that he’s 9-11 in his postseason career and has given up 24 home runs? Yeah, but he’s Clayton Kershaw!!!! Hmmmm. Well, that didn’t work out but we still can easily win this game and advance so let’s try Joe Kelly instead of Kenley Jansen. Hmmmm. Ok, well you do understand that Joe Kelly is a mental case and only threw 6 pitches the last few weeks of the season? Nope. He shut us down last year so he’ll step up here. We can’t trust Kenley anymore. Hmmmm. Ok, well let’s hope Howie Kendrick doesn’t comeback to haunt us!

Carlos, I’m still a big Cory Seager fan, but given his injuries and sub-par performances the last few years, what makes you think that the Cubs would do that deal? And given that Bryant plays 3B (but could possibly be moved to 1B), what would the Dodgers do at short. If you’re thinking Kike’ and/or Taylor, I’m not for it. And Urias, Kelly and Joc for Mookie Betts, why would Boston even consider it? If a deal is made for Betts, you can bet it has to include Lux along with some of our other top prospects, like Dustin May, Tony Gonsolin, and who knows who else. Betts would require a king’s ransom in return. And as much as I would love to have Betts, it appears that 2018 may have been an outlier.

And as good as Betts has been and will probably be, you can expect that his power numbers will decline if he moves to the NL West vs. the AL East, where the latter is home to the HR friendly ballparks in Boston, NY and Baltimore. Not sure about Toronto. Betts is very good, but maybe not worth the King’s Ransom that Boston would likely demand in return.

There was a lot of digest in today’s posts. Enough to give anyone indigestion.

I mentioned last night in the previous thread that I hoped the Dodgers would sign both Rendon and Cole. And I still stand by that, although when it comes right down to it, I am simply in favor of the Dodgers being aggressive in the FA market in addition to building from within, where appropriate. And admittedly I haven’t delved into the FA market in any detail, so I’m not totally certain how the Dodgers should proceed in that arena. Nor do I have a clue about any trades they may make.

I think I recall that someone mentioned that Cole was in his 30’s. That’s not exactly true, as he was born in September 1990, which means that he won’t turn 30 until the end of next season. Pretty much the same for Rendon, who was born in June 1990. In other words, both players are in the prime of their careers, and should be for the next several years. In fact, Betts was born on October 7, 1992 (which means he shares a birthday with both me and Vladimir Putin 🙂 ).

Like everyone else here I was extremely disappointed last night. And although Kershaw and Kelly (the Killer K’s?) deserve a big part of the blame, for me the biggest failure (which I mentioned during the game in the previous thread) was the Dodgers inability to tack on runs after the 2nd inning. And despite 106 wins, that was something the Dodgers did all too often during the regular season.

Regarding Cory Seager, although I would consider trading him (as I would any player) for a the right package of players, I still believe in him. Seager’s decline began with the elbow problems he began to have at the end of the 2017 season, and the surgeries he had in 2018 for that same elbow and his hip. He has spent the last two off-seasons rehabbing rather than working out. If he is able to have a more normal off-season this year, I suspect that he may come back a lot better than he has been, and with a lot more power than he’s exhibited in recent years. Of course, that’s all of guess on my part, so I can’t attest to its validity.

And I expect that a lot of the younger Dodger players (and that includes Bellinger along with all of this years rookies) will benefit from all that they experienced and learned this past year.

Been a long day today.

For some reason that hurt more than the past 7 years, including the 2 WS defeats.

I think it was because every single Dodger fan could see what was unfolding before them, and were helpless to do anything. Like a bad dream.

I said before the game that I had a bad feeling, and so it panned out.

I’ve read all the posts, and every one has merit. For me the thing that made me uneasy before the get go, was the way Doc lined Kershaw to pitch game 2, where Ryu would have been a better choice, on the premise that Kershaw would then be available to pitch in Relief in game 5.

Why? We’ve got relievers to do that.

Doc had already decided, before the 1st pitch of the Series was thrown, that come game 5, Kershaw was gonna be the first through the BP Gates.

He did not waver from that premise.

Maeda was the obvious choice at that time. He had been our best performer and now was his moment. But no.

The rest is history.

Kelly had it, and then was given too long a leash. He should’ve been out of there ASAP in the 10th.

The other odd thing for me, and I know people will day he must’ve been too banged up to play, was that if I’m not mistaken, David Freese only had one more AB in the series after coming off the bench and going 3-3 in game 3!

That is mad.