Dave Roberts: On the Hot Seat in 2024?
Over the last eight seasons, no team has won as many games as Dave Robert’s Dodgers. 753. His teams have won seven division titles, three NL pennants, and a World Series. Lasorda and Alston, probably the two most celebrated managers in Dodger history, never came close to that…
Over the last eight seasons, no team has won as many games as Dave Robert’s Dodgers. 753. His teams have won seven division titles, three NL pennants, and a World Series. Lasorda and Alston, probably the two most celebrated managers in Dodger history, never came close to that kind of success.
Different eras, of course. Lasorda’s teams won two World Series, seven years apart. His 1977 and 1978 teams went to the World Series and lost. He lost the 1983 and 1985 playoffs. His team also lost the 1995 playoff series to the Reds.
Alston won Brooklyn’s only title in his second year at the helm. His teams would win three more series in 1959-1963-1965 and lose in 1966 and 1974 before he retired.
Lasorda’s teams had a .526 winning percentage over his 21 years at the helm. Alston’s teams had a .558 in 23 years. Robert’s teams have won at a .630 percentage—the best in MLB history.
Yet Dodger fans consistently call for the team to fire him. It doesn’t matter that his teams have a winning percentage in the postseason; they are 45-39. They cite the last three postseason losses, especially the last two to the Padres and Diamondbacks. And they cite the fact that the Dodgers won only one World Series and that they did that in the shortened pandemic season of 2020.
They were cheated in 2017, but no one knew that until well after the series was over. In 2018, they played a much better team in the Red Sox.
What fans often forget is that all of the teams played under the same rules in 2020. All of the teams and players played in empty stadiums, so you had basically no 10th man. They played under conditions no MLB teams have ever had to play under before.
Then in order to even get to the World Series, they had to win three postseason series. Wild Card, NLDS, and then the NLCS. They cruised through the first two, beating the Brewers in two games and then sweeping San Diego.
In the NLCS, they went down 3-1 to the Braves. The only win coming on the strength of an 11 run first inning in game three.
They then lost game four. They were down 2-1 before they started their comeback in the sixth inning and won game five, 7-3. They won game three behind the stellar pitching of Walker Buehler and a three run first inning.
Then in game 7, they once again were down 2-0. Will Smith singled in 2 in the bottom of the third to tie. Ozuna untied it in the top of the fourth.
In the bottom of the 6th, Kike hit a homer off of Minter to tie the game. Meanwhile, Julio Urias came in as a relief pitcher in the top of the 7th.
Cody Bellinger hit a home run off of Chris Martin, yes, the same one who pitched for LA in 2022,and they were up 4-3. Urias totally shut down Atlants over the last three innings, and LA was off to the World Series.
Another thing fans forget is that all of these wins, except for the first two over the Brewers, were all played on neutral fields. Fans were not allowed in the stands until the NLCS and then only a limited amount.
So, there was no cheering section until the NLCS and World Series, both played on neutral fields and in order to be the champion, you had to win an unprecedented 13 games in the postseason.
In that postseason, the Dodgers went 13-5. Pretty good. Most fans do agree that during that run, Roberts did perhaps his best-managing job as to his use of the bullpen and starting staff.
It was by far Kershaw’s best postseason of his career. Many of his prior failures were forgotten. The fans were happy, the team was happy, and the fans of other teams denied that it was a legitimate win.
Some Dodger fans have joined that bandwagon over the years, and they point at Roberts as the reason the team has not won a World Series when the team has played a full season.
Roberts is very good at managing egos. He is a great communicator, and his players know exactly where they stand with him. If you were to ask his players, they would probably say they love playing for the guy.
Another knock on Dave is that his teams seem not to have any fire in their bellies. In other words, they lack grit. An example would be Chase Utley; Utley would go out of his way to beat you. And he wanted you to know who was taking you down.
There are not a lot of guys like that on the Dodgers now. Kershaw has that mentality. So does Buehler. Bobby Miller looks like he could bring that to the game, too. But most of the star players, to some, seem too laid back. Mookie and Freddie are the targets of this claim.
Players like Tommy Pham, who looks like he wants to fight you every game, are not on the team. But I believe that is a misconception on the fans’ part. I think all of these guys want to win, and want to win all of the time.
But most of the criticism for the lack of success in the postseason is directed at the manager. He didn’t pull Lynn after he gave up two bombs and allowed him to stay in and give up four. He should have pulled Kershaw in the first inning of game one after he gave up three runs.
He pulled Rich Hill when he was totally shutting down the Red Sox. They point out every pivotal point in a loss. And they throw the guy who made the decision under the bus, and not the player.
No matter what move he made, it was the wrong one. It is on Roberts and not the player. But the fact remains that the player failed to perform when most needed. He did send Kersh back out in the 8th inning of game 5 in 2019, and he gave up back-to-back homers to Rendon and Soto to tie the game.
He probably thought Kersh could get the lefty-hitting Soto out. He would have been better served by letting Maeda start the inning. But the offense also got nothing going against the Nats pen after they had scored three off of Strasburg.
With the best team in the majors in 22, his team lost to a team they dominated during the season. In 23, with a team that was so decimated in the starting rotation and still managed to win 100 games they again lost to a team they owned all year and lost to two pitchers they have owned their entire careers.
In 2024, he is not going to have any excuses. This organization went out and spent over 1 billion dollars on the two best free agents at their position this year. Then they traded for another pitcher and extended him for 5 years at over 100 million. They are most likely not finished tweaking the roster before spring training starts a little over 7 weeks from now.
Dave is definitely under the microscope this year. It is a World Series win or bust. I honestly believe his team has to win this year, or a change will be coming.
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Discussion (92)
Disagree, not disagreeable
I have always felt that the LAD were management by committee. If that is correct, it seems to work well in the regular season, but not so well in post season. Perhaps they need to analyze their approach rather than who is the manager.
Regular season records being indicative of nothing is a curious underpinning.
Are the results of a three or five game season a better sample?
I think these trade & Free Agent signings just reinforced Doc tenure in Dodger blue. Now is less chance to Doc to do all those things you guys think he (without remedy or cure) will do, like a “Doc Curse” or something like that.
I wil tell you a story of management. Around 1967-69, Winter PR Baseball League, semifinals 7th game, Santurce Crabbers vs. San Juan Senators. Santurce manager was Frank Robinson. Pitching for Santurce was future ace Jim Palmer, 1st batter, cuban journey man CF Jose Cardenal bat a HR. Palmer proceeded to strikeout the next 8 batters. JCardenal come again & then Cardenal hit another dinger. FRobinson brought Kindo Geigel!! This pitcher came to the mound with 2 gloves because he pitched from both arms. He was really bad as a righty but was even worse as a lefty!! Okay, the games just went out of hand and we lost. You just can imagine FRobinson has to be protected by the police to get out of the ballpark and not get linched. 50 years later reading an excellent blog about the golden era of winterball, I finally knew that like many pitchers in the time, were monitored by the main MLB team and JPalmer was in a pitch count and FRobinson was only following orders from Baltimore.
I think Doc Roberts will be Dodgers manager at least the years SOthani is a Dodger.
I agree with Bear that Doc is not a great baseball strategist. Maybe he needs a more veteran bench coach (not named Bob Geren or Danny Lehmann). I had a problem last playoff with his predictable use of his platoons. He flipped the lineup too early that caused matchup issues and a lack of available players late in the game. Seems the brass loves platoons. Doc’s made his share of questionable strategic moves. But who hasn’t? If the players come through, it’s no harm, no foul. When it fails, fire the bastard.
The perceived motivational deficiencies of Doc are laughable. Do you really think pregame pep talks or profanity laced triads have an impact on professional athletes on a regular basis? Many here seem to believe that shit works?
Some guys play better angry and snort fire. That’s swell for a handful of players. A relief pitcher in a short stint can do that but it is unsustainable for a 4 hour game. Starting pitchers, like Kershaw at his best, focus for intervals and compartmentalize there effort. Golfers focus a shot at a time but not for 5 hours. You can’t stay pissed off that long.
Other players are happy players. Freddie Freeman is a welcome wagon at first base. Mookie, when he’s playing well and not beating himself up, plays best when he’s smiling and having fun. There is not one best personality for a competitor.
Managers are the same. How far does that fiery per-game pep talk work when a college football team goes out to face a dominant opponent? Wasn’t it Mike Tyson who said everybody has a plan until they take a shot in the nose?
For years, a hard-ass, no nonsense skipper would live by the axiom “I don’t care if the players like me, as long as they respect me”. (I think a manager can do both). Bobby Valentine comes to mind. And each time a Bobby Valentine is fired the organization is seeking a more “player friendly” manager. So, what’s the formula – a hard-ass, rigid motivator or a more laid back communicator who has the player’s backs?
How many here really think that Mookie or Freddie or Will or Ohtani would be better in the playoffs after fiery speeches, pre and post, and kicks in the ass. Many here who likely never played competitive anything past high school seem to think so. These are grown men who should know how to get physically and mentally ready and self-motivated for big moments. If they don’t it’s NOT on the Manager. Doc was NOT responsible for our not showing up in the playoffs.
We’ve yet to find the answer on how to deal with the ridiculous 9 days off after winning a division. I’ve suggested playing somewhat competitive games with real fans let in for free, against the winners of Independent Leagues who just finished their seasons. (I’d bet the MLBPA would put the kibosh on that idea) Anything besides inter-squad games. But the same lack of adequate prep could be questioned by every division winner but one.
Doc is not a great strategist. But he is not at fault for not being Knute Rockne and a win one of the Gipper speech. That doesn’t work. Some guys need kid gloves. Some guys need a cerebral approach. Some guys need an appeal to their pride. Some guys need to be left alone and some guys need a kick in the ass. The trick is to understand your team. I never knew a single player who wanted to play for a Cheerleader.
Usted piensa que los altos mandos de LA Dodgers son tontos al invertir mas de mil millones de dolares solo para darle una ventaja competitiva al manager (Roberts)? no cree usted que sería mas facil despedirlo y ahorrarse ese monton de dinero y buscarse un manager (Bochy) que les pudiera garantizar titulos de serie mundial porque es un genio de manejador?
I’m tempted to say that any of us could manage these Dodgers to 100 wins.
This team has so much talent, and I think we’ll see a few more pieces added in the next few weeks.
Reports persist that Dodgers could sign Hader, or trade for Clase. Who winds up in LF? Will Lux really be the SS? Will AF add another ace like Burnes or Cease, or maybe a guy like Giolito?
BTW, I saw report that former Dodgers prospect Clayton Beeter has a chance to be the Yankees’ 5th starter. He’s the guy that AF traded for Joey Gallo.
Some smoke about a possible Cleveland deal with Bieber and Clase. What’s that gonna cost?
It would clear up a spot for Yamamoto. And who would you rather have? Bieber or Giolito? Not a lot of 200 innings guys on this roster! And may not see Buehler or Kersh until late June or July.
Last year most of Roberts mistakes were with the pitching staff. He is responsible for 5 to 10 losses per year. My two favorite examples last year were pulling a starter with a no hitter with 68 pitches and leaving a starte in to for 4 home runs in one inning. The first resulted in a loss. The second eliminated any chance of Dodger victory.
Roberts pulls his starters when they are going good and then is happy to leave them in to get bombed for 7 or 8 runs.
When you bring in 4 or 5 relievers it’s common to find one having a bad night. Most managers would yank a guy that gives up some hits and runs to minimize the damage. Not Roberts. He will let the guy give up 4 or 5 runs before the hook.
Sometimes, he is saving the starter for October. Sometimes, he is saving the bullpen. As you can see not many of his starters finished the year.
Roberts will never be fired. How has he lasted after the last two years ? Several years ago, after one of his horrible playoffs filled with blunders the internet was buzzing with fire Roberts talk. The Dodgers extended his contract.
Man, can I get some of you guys some cheese for all your friggin whining! Yes , we all can list some of Docs faults over the years, but there are so many things behind the scenes that he has to deal with off the field with players and management. Pisses me off that all you keyboard Cowboys can pick him apart for every little thing he does wrong, yet give him no cred when he does something right, goes both ways guys. I thought he did his best job managing this past year with the way he juggled and duct taped the dumpster fire of a pitching staff, no way we should have won 100 games in 2023, yet most of you think it’s in spite of Roberts. He got total props for his job in 2023 on MLB network, and no, that wasn’t him swinging the bats for Mookie and Freddie against the D-Bags, plus we all knew we had ZERO starting pitching heading into the playoffs, courtesy of Freidman holding off last offseason and at the trade deadline to wait for Ohtani. Do you really think that he would have settled for Lance Lynn at any normal trade deadline??? Once again , it’s all about the players , and I’ve heard Uncle Ned Colletti say time and time again in the Roggin and Rodney AM 570 show that if your going to fire a guy, you better make damn sure the next guy is better. All I see out there is a bunch of recycled managers , same old same old, and don’t forget, not every manager is cut out to manage a high pressure job like the Dodgers. Managing goes way beyond what you see on the field. Especially with Ohtani, gonna be a damn circus..
Again I must say that AF thinks he’s doing a good enough job and he might know a bit more about baseball than we do!
Doc won’t be fired! as long as AF runs the ship he’s safe!! he makes some brain burning moves at times, but does anybody believe the other choice when Doc was hired (kapler) was a better option? when it comes to strange moves and head scratching switches ol Gabe is at the top of the list! check out cardinals manager, not very good. bob melvin should have been fired in san diego,( though he is one of the better managers) . aaron boone has underachieved, i know injuries haven’t helped. , etc. now im not jumping on the roberts bandwagon! he’s for the most part done what he’s supposed to in the regular season. overall not so much in the playoffs. 2020 wss by far his best job. like said, he doesn’t hit , pitch, or field. anymore. but as long as AF is there he’s safe. who would replace him?